I asked this due mainly to the mex bug that is now seeing more use. Obviously, it is not intended to have a t1 and t2 mex operating on the same mex spot, generating more mass than you should be able to produce. (same with t2/t3)

So, the question is - what will happen to people that abuse this exploit?

If nothing is going to happen, then we all may as well use it until it is fixed. If you play competively you can't handicap yourself, so this is why I'm asking for clarification as it is an obvious bug. Most people have a dilemma over this, as they don't want to use an exploit but at the same time, handicapping yourself in ranked play isn't smart either.

Looking for an official GPG statement on this.

well, if it's just a messaround game, sure I'd say it's fine, it's just like the x2 resources mod, but once it gets competitive, that should be regarded as a statwipe/ban offense. <-(period)

Yes, an answer from GPG would be great here. However, if you look at Tools->Feedback, you can make your own conclusions. There's an explicit "Mass Exploit Cheat Report" item there, which probably means:

GPG knows and disapproves.

You're always on the safe side by not breaking any rules; and I'm sure that option means it's a free win for you if you post the replay vault link where your opponent used the exploit in that feedback.

Also, moral and ethic superiority are worth much, much more than a few ranking points, and certainly, I wouldn't risk getting banned or having my stats wiped for using the exploit.


I think the exploit is also not okay in Custom games, unless all present players are aware of it and using it, and the only time it is okay to use it is in sandbox test sessions.


To all of those who think making blatant use of the exploit is gonna get us the patch earlier: That's just plain BS. Increasing the pressure or even forcing an action from GPG will interrupt the lengthy QA process on whatever they are working on, easily costing thousands of dollars per incident. Since THQ has definitely only allotted them a certain amount of money to pay for the development of patches, that means on the bottom line, while this behaviour can get you a hotfix earlier, it will shorten the total duration and quality of support for the game, resulting in fewer patches and freebies overall.

Think about it.

Hang on I thought it was impossible to place a mex only half on a mass spot, right!? In T.A., however, this was possible, but each mex only harvested half the metal if it was only half on the metal deposit. So it worked out less economical to do it. Maybe I am missunderstanding entirely or something

Its when you upgrade to t2 or t3 mex, pause before completion and use engineer to finish. The new mex appears but the old wont be removed before you unpause so you get t1+t2 or t2+t3 mass, easy to spot in replays thanks to the (/) sign

This is not the exploit you are looking for. ^^ It works differently, but this is unrelated to this topic. Watch SuperiorX's ranked game replays if you want to see the exploit in action.

Edit: Nowak summed it up nicely. Didn't want this to degenerate into a discussion about a specific exploit, though. With Mass Storage, this exploit gives you up to 27 Mass per single Mex spot.

easy to fix....eliminate pausing during ranked games......which is wicked annoying anyway and the root of most exploits


....if your Mother-in-Law comes over or you spill your beer...to bad.....if you can't keep your concentration on the game you're goin' to lose anyways

Uh, you pause the upgrade not the game...

opps....sorry

Removing an option that leads to a bug is not called a "fix", that's a workaround.

GPG don't work sloppy. Last time I talked to Agent911 about a bug, and suggested a workaround, he said he'll prefer the hard route.

weird, ive done this a few times (paused mexs so they kept producing during the upgrade) but never noticed any increased production when they hit 100%. i thought they just paused at 100% and were still a t1 mex and you had to unpause it to get a t2

There's a hidden T2 Mex inside the T1 Mex after the upgrade is finished by the engineers. If you go over the thing with the mouse in different view angles, you will see T1/T2 flickering in the tool tip.

really? I do that all the time, I didn't know it gave me extra mass. I do it because the engineers have lower usage cost than the mex, so I upgrade it but without losing money as fast. I'll be careful not to do that in ranked games, which I never play anyway so it doesn't matter that much to me.

Pass along a PM to one of the GPG employees, and get confirmation that they're working on it. Then they should pop out a patch and *someone* will complain, but it's probably more important to fix the exploit now.

In general, players that utilize exploits during ranked games are taking their life in their hands. On GPGnet, you don't have the normal protections of anonymity to cover you if you are caught cheating or exploiting.

That said, in some cases an exploit is a part of the game for a short period. In talking with the top players, they felt the mex exploit was a 50/50 proposition requiring a lot of mirco-management, that only helps during a certain window of time. Most of them don't bother with it. For lesser mortals, anything that requires a lot of micro probably isn't really helping them.

If a serious exploit were uncovered - lets say, a tac missile attack all the way across a 2k map...We'd take stronger action to prevent it from being used in a ranked game.

Our approach will vary based on the situation.

hey all,

how is using this exploit different from the factory reclaim exploit? factory reclamation has been widely used by all high ranked players as well, and they werent considered cheaters...

There might've been several, and I think one was fixed. Which one you talking about?

factory reclaiming wasnt really an exploit, since it meant you had to reduce your facts to very low health meaning a few bombers could finish it off with ease. the effects of it being possible were undesirable to gameplay, though, so it was removed

what WAS an exploit was when you were able to reclaim the Cybran SCU when it had the selfheal upgrade. you could get a huge increase in mass income for little cost.

personally i think the mex exploit is easier than upgrading normally. select all your t1 mexes, tell them to all upgrade, pause them all and send an engineer to go and upgrade them all one by one. not only does it take less time than upgrading each one individually (in terms of micromanagement) but the benefit at the end is greater

im pretty sure this works for the UEF t2/t3 shield, too

edit: yep

In that case, wouldn't it work with factories as well?

Oh oh that's definitely a nasty exploit. Should probably be hotfixed asap.

LOL, some just dont think before posting. How paused factory could be of any use ?

No, because factories don't do anything while paused.

That's a mean looking shield.

(reposted with permission from SonOfShagrat - not verbatim)

All right, I don't understand what those top folks told him, because compared to Factory Reclaiming, this exploit neither incurs a risk, nor does it cause a significant amount of additional micro. In fact, you can use it in a fashion that reduces your upgrading micro by quite a bit.

1. zoom out
2. double-click a T1 mex
3. hit the upgrade button, then the pause button
4. grab two or three T1 engineers
5. shift-click on every mex

Done! This is "chain upgrading", which is a quite sensible, micro-removing technique. Unfortunately, if you don't unpause your Mexes, it will also trigger the bug, giving you the extra mass as if you had two mexes (one T1, one T2) in the same place.

My view of the top players is a bit shattering there, because this is obviously a much bigger deal than Factory Reclaim was - especially because it has nearly no added risk (with reclaiming, factories became brittle), nor has it added micro (reclaiming needed a lot of that).




@Rienzilla:

Reclaiming

• Reclaiming worked as intended by the programmers, it was not a bug. It was even intended to work that way according to the designers.
• Reclaiming caused economic imbalances that were not expected by the game designers, that led to changing this feature.
• It was not in the Release Build due to timing reasons, which means that maybe using it in the initial Retail Builds would have been exploiting. It remains questionable, at least. It was still just playing "by the old rules". It's like playing an older build where T3 Mexes still give you 18 Mass or Broadswords were still stronger, with all the balance consequences that had.
• Factory Reclaim was primarily an issue in the Beta, which is a wholly different ball park to begin with.

Mex Duplication

• The Mass Extractor Duplication is an actual bug in the code that keeps paused upgrading buildings from disappearing while their upgrade still appears. As such, it is unintended by both the programmers and the game designers.
• The Mex Duping causes an economic imbalance that every Designer would immediately expect when they hear about the bug.
• It sticks out as an obvious bug when examined, instead of merely appearing as an imbalanced game mechanic. You can even see the graphics glitch the overlapping building models cause when using the exploit. The Exploit is also more obscure than Factory Reclaim, as it involves tricking the game controls to provoke unintended effects.
• That makes expoiting this bug unethical, or, in other words, downright illegal.

The fact that in GPGnet, the Exploit is listed as a Cheat and has its own report class nullifies any discussion whether or not GPG consider it illegal. They do. Deal with it, restrain yourself, and report abusers whenever you see them. Play hard, play fast, play fair.