It's not, it's just more subtle. MOBA communities are notoriously awful and I find the LoL trolls infinitely more bearable.

You keep saying stuff but I have no idea what your beef is. I can only assume its some sort of personal edrama between certain people and certain other people, since I havent detected anything myself.

I doubt you want to explain, and I'm not sure I want to know, so lets leave it at that I guess.

Probably for the best, although I can assure you it's more than just a personal beef (despite what anyone might try to claim). I would never bring personal dislike to the forums in this way.

Good luck to everyone still playing. It is, after all, a wonderful game.

Yeah maybe gpgnet died already. If this is true i will stop playing FA.

Why?

1 vs 1 on faf = noob bashing
the chat is spamed with games and other stuff
and multiplayer games are mercy only or lagging
- no clan system
- no awards
- no avatars
- no mod vault
- true skill? Oo

You realise it's a beta, and half the issue you've said are due to debugging or early stages of the system ? (automatch with no restriction,...). Clan, avatars,.. are really trivial to add. It's not our priority right now.

You can remove the game announce in case you didn't notice (options -> Chat -> Uncheck Open games and livereplays).

And trueskill, I think you should read the wiki to understand how it work
If you want to troll, try at least to do it correctly.

ah reading so much stuff...

yeah it's a beta, ah man i don't care any more

do what you want maybe i play a game a week.

Finally i notised mmorpgs make much fun

Hey,

I just read this thread,

http://www.faforever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=465&start=10

i actually am not impressed at all that you would urge someone not to use my mod
but the most disturbing part is that you disected DMS and have taken parts out without permission, now you did message me the other asking could you use some of the features that DMS offers, my answer was wait for an official release and we can talk again about the features you wanted on faf, doing things like this does not stand well for future relations regards to using my code.

with this respect would you please remove DMS from your client,
i just hope you do not try to steal any of my coding and pass it off as your own.

Thank you.

It all seems kinda moot based on my understanding, the portions of DMS that were used by WBP aren't even required due to how FAF is coded in the same way the BO mods don't require BOGIS on FAF.

Mike

Read your PMs.

But I will tell the same thing publicly, check the mod file yourself, you will see that nothing was removed. He didn't understand what I meant, and it seems that you don't either : I've removed 3 lines, the lines that search for the mod paths and icons. You can easily understand why.

And indeed, your mod is not necessary for what he is doing, over-complicate the Wyvern integration, and on top of that break compatibility with the AI (and I think others mods).

While I'm impressed with your mod, I'm now really concerned that you are messing with a lot of thing that break compatibility with others mods. These shouldn't be part of a standard toolbox for modders.

That's why I urge him to not use it anymore. It's broken, and I can't fix it without editing your code. That's why. I don't want to dissect and remove the offending parts ! (yes, I don't want to do what you are accusing me to have done

Now I can remove the whole thing from the lobby if it's that you want, or just remove DMS from wyvern (if it wasn't packaged with wyvern, and if brandon was able to tell me why he needed it, I wouldn't even bother to convert them, like I didn't bother for BOGIS for BO)

I really don't need that kind of accusations (why on earth I will steal your work and urge someone to not use it at the same time !?) nor the extra-work of managing this situation.

On an extra note, a toolbox like yours should be release in the spirit of open source, and you should allow modifications as long as these are publics.

You should allow modders to take parts of your scripts (a real toolbox), and not the package as a whole, as long as the source are publics, and the copyright in it.

It's more convenient for the modders, and more profitable for you (it will be used by more modders). The biggest problem is that right now there must be a bug with DMS and AI, and neither brandon or I can fix it because it's a third party script that we are not allowed to edit.

You can check that I give back a lot of my code :
https://bitbucket.org/repo/mine (my partIO plugin for maya has already 3 forks, and I'm proud of it

That's the only way a project like this can evolve in the right direction.

ZePilot, I guess he can choose what his mod is being used for and what not. But that's not the problem.

What merely happened is that Brandon007 miscommunicated something ZePilot never said (or meant), and it upset Domino.

Calm down, guys! This is the internet! These things happen all the time.

Fortunately, there's nothing Domino should be upset about, because Pilot used all code with permission (even his support).

I hope we can get this little misunderstanding dealt with and I'm genuinely sorry people were led to be upset without a reason. (even though I had no hand in it, I hate it to see people argue when it's no issue at all )

Of course. I was explaining why I've said to Brandon to avoid DMS for now. Rely your work on a code you don't own or/and can't modify is always dangerous.

It's about me not being able to fix wyvern on FAF and not the DMS qualities (these are great scripts).

Hi,

Ok if i got the wrong end of the stick i apologise, i have asked ze on a few occassions which scripts of mine he was using and what he did to them, the answer was the same see brandon, not that it is important now, if you say you havent altered DMS or taken code then i obviously beleive you,

on another note, im now interested to know which parts or DMS you think are breaking the AI, obviously i know which parts "were" causing problems however these issues have now been fixed.. they involved cheating ai's and different parts of the economy.

regards to changing weapon functions, this is false, all i do with weapons is count projectiles fired by each units weapon and store them, i also hooked a few functions
to call ongottarget and onlosttarget in a units script, i also added a dummy weapon for the shield range ring radius and changed the GetWeapon function a little to never return the shield range ring weapon.. this does not break anything nor will it cause problems in the future for other mods unless they destructively hook the functions i have hooked, in which case its not my problem.

compatablity, obviously some functions cannot be hooked, in this rare case issues cannot be resolved unless both parties talk and intergrate each others code into there mod for the given function, this is the reason i created the IsModLoadedByIdentifier or uid functions, so that other mods can get the destructive code from the other mod and add it to there own mod along with there code, in the hope that they will either just use there code or the intergrated code so there is no conflicts between mods.. faf will not fix this, its a modding issue,
just becase faf uses scd's does not negate the fact that mods are still scripts,
and the same problems exist in scd form as they do in normal mod form, baring the pathing.

you are correct that you do not know my code so you shouldnt really be altering it
if there is a problem you should come directly to me and i will hopefully agree something is broken or needs removing. i should be the one to remove it or fix it..
obviously DMS is one of those mods that strive to make things available to everyone
that were not available before, with his in mind there will obvioulsy be problems along the way, but its nothing that cannot be fixed quite easly once i know about them, DMS obviosly adds a ton of functions which are new and never seen before
it also changes quite a few default functions to achieve the goal it does..
i DO strive to hook all functions, however sometimes this is unavoidable.
obvioulsy i want DMS to be compatable with the majority of mods, hell im even willing to work on the other mods code to fix it.. because im like that..
only one person i know of is using DMS, (which is a shame) and thats brandon,
up until yesterday he was only the texture support (some of which is still needed even on faf) the enhancement slots and now he is using some code from a 4dc ability in his mod, which uses the IsModLoaded function to check if the mod is loaded before adding things to his units script.

there is alot of code in DMS that might not ever be used but thats not to say it might not be important to someone in the future, besides if its not breaking anything or causing any game overhead, it can stay in there.

we could also say that every mod created is opensource but that does not mean
anyone but the author of said mod should alter the mod, lets say i take faf reverse engineer it and open my own match making service, would this be acceptable? or i just take faf change parts of it for my own liking and start a match making service..
this is just not acceptable at all do, i think you see my point, just because you changed the way mods are implimented on faf does not give you the right to change said mods without permission i never gave such permission, hell i didnt even put dms of gpgnet so its not important for my mod to go any where at the moment.. but thats not to say i wont want it on faf in the future when its in a stable condition like i said in pm.

i see the importance of faf im not stupid, now that gpgnet might be gone
however you guys have to be carefull which mods you put on there and alter
even in a minor way, some authors might not like this specially the ones that are still active.. as you have put a lot of work onto faf, i also have put alot of work and continue to put alot of work into DMS, im sure you get my point.

Dave.

The source code of FAF lobby will be made open-sourced, and you are very welcome to change it to your need as long as you will respect the open-source policy and make these changes publics.

The server code worth nothing in itself. I can give you the server code, you can open your own version of FAF, but do you have the time or the wiling to fix the bugs, propose the support, pay the server and complete the missing functions ?

About DMS :

I've told you to see with Brandon because I've asked him what he was using from DMS and was unable to answer me precisely. As he know your mod and his mod more than me, he has more chances to answer you correctly.

What annoy me most is that the featured mods is supposed to be "state-of-the-art / working out of the box" mods.
Being there is a "seal of approval" from the FAF team.

The fact that wyvern is actually broken in big parts of his functions (The AI) kind of defeat the purpose. And I (or brandon) can't fix it because it rely on a third-party scripting toolbox (yours).

Meaning two things :
- You can actively works for FAF and fix all the issues.
- We have to remove wyvern because it doesn't meet our level of expectation (for something wyvern itself is not responsible).

That's why I've told Brandon to try to not use it. I don't want you to be implicated in something you didn't asked. (and I understand that DMS is a beta now, that's why it shouldn't be used in a released featured mod at this stage).

For the bug :

Here is the log :

https://bitbucket.org/thepilot/falobby/ ... aolis_paul

warning: Error running OnStartBeingBuilt script in Entity xsb0101 at 1b942808: ... - forged alliance\gamedata\lua.scd\lua\sim\unit.lua(5333): bad argument <<issue 1>> to `getn' (table expected, got nil)

DMS is altering unit.lua in a very big part, and as blackops, nomads or any other other mod have a problem with that, I assume that it's a modification from DMS.

As I almost certain that it's not used by wyvern, I've proposed to brandon to remove all these files. That's where the misunderstanding come from.
I though it was always clear for him that I have your authorization, and he assumed I got it to strip these files.
The reality is that I want first Brandon opinion, AND THEN ask you if you are okay with it.
But really, this process is really over-complicated for everybody.

For modders :

I always ask for modders to be part of the featured mods program, or they ask me.
Either way, I always open a repository (public or private) for them. It's not done yet for BO and wyvern, but I've sent the package to both teams for approval before putting it online.

We are not stealing anything. Fact is your mod is part of Wyvern, and as your mod is supposed to be a toolbox for other mods, I just assumed that telling you it was used was enough. (that was maybe a mistake from me).

If you want to have a total control with the diffusion of your mod, you have to be clearer about that with the modders, and I can refuse any mod with DMS if the feature if it's what you want. It's your project, you manage it as you want.

Hi,

I said exactly the same to brandon when he mentioned that dms was on faf,
as it is in beta stage it could embarass us both if a bug has not been reported or fixed.

looking at the log i see,


which causes the rest of the problems for all other mods loaded at the same time,
as the aibrain hook failed obvioulsy it makes the aibrain unusable

basicly a missing end or two many ends in brandons aibrain.lua hook.

Will look at that thanks.

It's most probably an error I've introduced by merging the brain functions from Brandon and yours. (don't worry, there are separated, properly credited, but in the same file).
My time is really limited now and I don't want that in the future, so...

Why not make a code base for FAF featured mods, so you are sure that all is as you want ?

Because updating Wyvern AND DMS at the same time, I won't have the time for that.

If you do a correct base code, Brandon can code over it, and if you change the base code, a simple patch can be applied. Is that a possibility for you ?

Also, as we have a automated ticket system, we can make make a "DMS" component so you will get every bug report about it.

I think working that way will be really profitable both for FAF (as modders would be able to work with your scripts without worrying about it) and you (you will be sure that nobody mess with it, and will have more input from the users).

Hi,

Well like i said in pm,
first thing for me is to fix bugs in DMS, something which is actually coming to completion for the next official release, i have been puttng beta's in the dms thread
in the hope others will download and try it, and report bugs, thank fully though
my bug testing players are reporting bugs on a daily basis, which are fixed promptly

My problem is that DMS is very ambitious in what it does, its a big project not without its own pitfalls, what it does is absolutely brilliant regards to unit and ui modding, however we have to understand that this functionailty does come in some cases at a compatability cost, specificaly for mods that change some parts of the ui, sadly this cannot be helped as the authors of said mods may not be interested in working on applying a fix or using the dms method, in the past DMS has been plagued with little bugs, which i hope i have now found and fixed, ive cut back alot of code from the release on the forums and i have hooked as many hookable functions as humanly possible, that is not to say i have fixed all bugs or even found them, however the ones that have been found or reported have been fixed..

so to answer your question again,
i will complete work for the next release then we can all see how stable
and compatable DMS is with other mods.. then we can decide which route
if any were going to take with regard to putting DMS on faf.

i do not want buggy code to go any where that is accessable to many people.
it just wouldnt be right to do this.

Okay.

For the time being, and if it's okay with you, what I can do is this :

- All your code remain in the codebase of Wyvern
- If you overriding something that wyvern don't use, and that it's causing a problem, we report to you, obviously, but we hook the original code instead of yours until it's fixed : your code stays, still properly credited, but the older function will overwrite it.

Hi,

this is why i say you have to be carefull what you alter in mods,
dms's functions (some of them) are totally dependant on the code i have introduced
into said functions, removing or reverting the function to previous unchanged state
may introduce other errors..

obviously some of dms is geared to the usual way of modidng, with faf we have to change the structure of the mod i think, or are you still using the mods folder in the scd or extracting each mods script to the appropriate lua/textures schook folder,

when you say you have merged dms into brandons mod, have you totally moved all the script files into the same mod or just adding both mods in the same scd to the mods folder..

merging the mods would be a bad idea, and ofcourse a time consuming thing to do.
This method is not without its own pitfalls and could potentually introduce many other bugs that were not present in there individual form.

Hmmm now than I think about it, it can easily do two separate hook folders. That will be cleaner.

What should be loaded first ?

light goes on in pilot head.

HURRAYYYY

Hi,

DMS should always be loaded first before any mod that uses it, as it contains
the base functions.

you might also want to pickup the latest beta from the end of the dms thread and use that one instead of the current you have, as it contains bug fixes.. and is more stable.

Hi,

also just for future referrance, DMS should never be "merged" into another mod,
its a platform for other mods to do extra things that are not default, so it needs to be a standalone mod at all times.. which is loaded first before any other mods.