Allright, point taken.

Don't hold this against me if I'm wrong but I heard from a slightly unreliable source that here in the UK if you legally own a gun and it is not locked up tight so people who are not permitted to use it are able to get a hold of it or do so, you can be screwed hard.

Maybe if such a thing were implemented in the Land of Stupidity, and on top of it the owner(s) of the gun(s) used in such killings like the one the OP brought up were held fully accountable whether or not the sh­it head with the itchy trigger finger lived or not and the shooter is fully punished if they're arrested.
TL;DR, punish the owner of the gun for what the shooter did to get people to keep their firearms safely stored.

If such a system is already implemented in the US then call me an idiot and ignore what I said this post.

In the Netherlands you have to keep the gun in a safe and separate from the ammo. Police will do random checks to see if you're really keeping the gun in the correct way.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is the point of owning a gun then?

Sport shooting. Or hunting.

And not killing people, that's for sure.

Yep you can get up to 5 years for unlawful use of a firearm.

You can use any gun you need to use as long as you have a good reason to have it and you keep it locked up.

You can't have a 9mm semi auto pistol but you can have a .32 revolver. Why? because (the government says) you shouldnt be using guns to defend your house, you should be using them for sport shooting and hunting.

You can have a long barrel shotgun as long as its not pump action or semi auto (obviously a full auto is out of the question) and if you cut it down then thats illegal.
The reason? long barrel shotgun for hunting grouse and clay pigeon shooting.

You can have a rifle as long as it is bolt action and certain calibres, I dont know which ones.

What this means is generic criminals in britain all have sawn off shotguns, while actual gangsters still have 9mm's and whatever else they want. Normal people dont have guns over here. There are still shootings but they are extremely rare compared to America (using whatever ratio you want)

It's a different culture.
When a suburban white kid goes mental in america, he can get his hands on a gun. When a suburban white kid goes mental over here, he can't.

You do know that guns are not just a tool to kill people, right?

THAT'S not scary or anything...

What other laws can the police do "random checks" to make sure you're following?

Guns are killing tools. That is all they are for. The only reasons to own a gun are to hunt for food (which isn't necessary in European or American society) or to defend yourself (which is precluded as a possibility with those rules in place). I'm not saying I'm for or against those laws, I'm just saying they remove the only reasonable reason for owning a gun.

So you're saying that people only and always buy guns for the express purpose of killing someone?

No, not at all. I'm saying that self-defense (not necessarily killing) is the only logical reason to own a gun in the time and place you or I live in.

What about archery? I mean, surely a bow and arrow is only used for killing things... and not sporting.

You can use a gun for sport, and not harm any living thing (accidents excepted). Guns aren't only for killing things. The law is there to prevent people from killing things.

In holland they can search you on the street randomly. Just walking down the street.

You make a good point. I'll withdraw my statement.

I know youre trolling, but I'll bite anyways and say thats complete bullshit.

It happened to me while I was in Amsterdam - the copper said he was checking for knives.

Being in a foreign country I didnt feel like getting into a "LOL IKNOW MY RIGHTS NAZI" debate with him about it.

Maybe I should have phrased it differently as I have no idea if its a legal requirement to comply with this or not. I'm sure Amerstam gets its fair share of knife wielding english and scots roaming about drunk - I was shroomed up to my fu­cking eyeballs.

Traffic laws? Think about random stakeouts to catch speeding people. Just some example.

Also, how is this less scary than knowing that every guy you meet can potentially pull a gun and shoot you? Especially considering that Dutch cops won't just beat you up randomly like American cops.

About the random searches: I bet that there are rules in some places that allow the police to do that if they have their reason to. It doesn't happen often, though. Never actually saw it happen.

Well usually theyre only allowed to preemptively search random people at special gatherings like football matches, festivals or protests...

Then again, the red-light district in Amsterdam might be an exception You never know with those damn foreigners!

I wasnt in the red light area (not at that particular time anyway) , it was what looked like residential on the outskirts of the city centre - the only place where we could find a parking spot.

Then I wonder what shooting ranges, sport shooting, competitive shooting, trap shooting, etc, are for.

The vast minority of what guns get used for.

Comparitive to the murder aspect, then hunting, and the rest, is an incredible irrelevance.

Besides, you can just keep the gun at the shooting range instead of carrying it or at home.

I hate traffic cops and their stakeouts, but it's not the same thing. They're sitting out and witnessing you break the law before they take any action.

As to your second point, I'll just throw that cliche quote, alternately attributed to either Jefferson or Franklin: “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Well, I'm not raiden, I'm just an objective person. Let me just say this-

Having laws that say "no guns, outright" don't solve anything. The bad guys will always get their guns. They have their ways. So, the situation looks like this:

Guns are allowed:

Bad guys have guns, good guys have guns

Guns are outlawed:

Bad guys still have guns, good guys don't have guns anymore

*Note, when I say good guys here, I mean citizens defending themselves

That's kind of the root of the problem to me. Now, in relation to this story, what we have here are people who own the guns being complete asshats and not locking them up properly. If you're going to own a gun, keep a lock on it or something.

But it is much, MUCH easier for people who want to commit crimes to get guns. Legal ownership of guns allows for a stupid amount of crimes that occur out of hate, or spite, or teenage drama. After all, the hardcore criminals are the ones you really wouldn't be able to **** with if they got into your house, and they're the ones that are still going to have the guns.

If people want to ban guns, then fine - i dont argue that scenario.

But if you want ordinary people to have guns for self defense (ie. optional guns), then that doesnt really work so good, because it makes guns much easier for those with ill intent to get them, whilst only a small proportion of "good" citizens will carry and be trained in the use of a gun.

So ideally we want -everyone- to carry a gun, so bad guys are always outnumbered by gun carrying good guys.

At that point, we might as well do mandatory tasers - the crowd-defence still works, and its generally less dangerous than everyone having guns.

So, imo, you either ban guns and rely on the police for defense, or mandatory tasers. Optional guns is a half-baked solution.