The forum it's posted in doesn't matter. You aren't being logical at all since your logic is just plain wrong.

EDIT: the mule thing for example shows you are being childish instead of sticking to the discussion now that you have run out of insults to throw my way because I have actually proven to be quite understanding and reasonable. That's it for me. Now it's up to OK if he wants to add anything or not.

Anyway, mates please vote !

Perhaps but the moderating team should be more tolerant if the original unit who are used for the modelhack is not recognizable ...

Just give it two weeks and we'll see how it goes from there. Then everything will either pretty much go back to normal or in case SE explicitly tells me that they don't want cross game modding to take place then I'm sorry but you will have to accept that decision. I'm pretty sure they won't reply at all though so there shouldn't be anymore issues soon enough.

But .... who will can say
- " It is cross game modding " ( It is illegal )
or
- " It is a copy " ( it not realy illegal )

For exemple
I take a SC II unit because I like a part of this unit and I put the part in a SC FA unit ... after I rework the unwrap and the texture.
Now the unit is finish and who can say if it is an hack or just a copy of the part ...

If SE doesn't reply and the rule becomes a guideline nobody here will have to make that call. Which is why I'm hoping SE doesn't reply or replies and tells me they don't care. Anyhow, if the original model you borrowed from can no longer be recognized it might be fair use. So if you're planning on using parts of SC2 units because they look cool or whatever, please just hold out for a week or two.

That's called "derivate work" then, and the law is pretty clear about it : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

It has to look different enough for it to be considered new.

Anyway, I am starting to sound like a stuck record but in two weeks I hope to have an answer for you. I really hope this settles the matter over OK's new rule.

Most games are hacks of each other some ones idea or concept is reused or recreated over and over again, and i think if GPG, SE or THQ cared they would of said so over a year ago also you mods mite think it hurts GPGs but really its making them more money because it keeps a dead out dated game a live.

I think the Fair Use rule is an interesting option in case SE doesn't respond. Just have every modder who uses unit 'hacks' put that into his OP.

Anyway, let's see if SE responds.

Whats this? We cant use Unit hacks that look extremely similar to Sc2 units?

Honestly I lost track after Manimal started making stuff up about me being the first to hack models(this in itself is laughable).

The thread is supposed to be about porting content from one game to another, hacking models should only fall under this topic if the model being hacked is ported from a different game, if people want to talk about hacking models for use in the same game the model is from that needs to be a separate thread.

Mike

OMFG ADVANCE WARS!!!

Read the last post I made. From what I understand (This is based mainly on UK law, but AFAIK is almost identical for a US server) "Porting" is solely the taking of a model/texture from one game and using it in it's entirety or in part in another. If a company owns both games it's irrelevant, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

If you were to hack a Monkeylord into SC2 using ONLY SC2 (or custom) models/textures, that will not fall under porting, and would explicitly be allowed as long as the finished product is sufficiently different from the original as to be legally defensible as a "derivative work" as Ze more accurately pointed out.

If you were to take the exact model used in SC and modify that to use in SC2 then that is porting and in under any circumstance illegal, unless you have been given specific permission by the original IP holder. Even if you use a hacked piece from the SC model, and the rest is SC2 based, it's still porting. If the rest was custom, it becomes very grey depending on local Fair-Use rules, but with the conservative approach, it's not something people should be trying to do anyway.

That really didnt answer my question. Re-read it again before you say anything else...

But as far as I know, Model hacks are A-ok.

It answered your question exactly, you can make model hacks of units that look like (emphasis on look like. If they're almost identical it falls under porting) SC2 units in SC as long as you don't use meshes (or parts of) from SC2 models in the hacks. They'd have to be entirely from SC models or SC and custom so that they don't fall under "porting".

Hacks of SC2 models for use in SC2 is fine. (Fair-Use blah blah blah...)

So if i load a FA unit up in max then give it a make over create new textures and have to redo all the uvws its still porting i dont think that true at all becasue even if it looks the same in same aspects its not a carbon copy, Also GPG left support in SC2 for FA models and animations when they could of just created a new format.

True that... if its been completely retextured, its not considered a copy of the unit. It should, by all means, be considered legal to use.

Yeah, this is all where it becomes really grey and SE needs to get their act together.

If you've done "enough" to the model such that's it's barely recognizable from the original then it moves into the area where a SC model could be used in SC2. But there would have to be significant changes to both the texture and the model, just one wouldn't be enough to justify it's use. If you've re-textured it completely, no matter how thoroughly, It's still the same unit, and the only part you're allowed to distribute is your texture.

EG, The Bolo/Fatboy hack OK did, I believe is sufficiently different so as to count as his own IP and hence would be allowable for use in SC2. With some of Brandon's models (Please don't take any offense at what I'm saying, I mean none) you can easily recognize large segments from the original units and as such there is insufficient work to justify it being your IP and would fall under porting if moved to SC2.

This Fatboy is both FA and SC2 so it should be able to be used in both then .

EDIT: I misread what you said... ignore most of this
It's not in both (EDIT: In reference to the GPG Fatboy). From a legal standpoint they're two completely different unrelated units, completely different models and textures. The concept of a unit, in terms of armaments/role is irrelevant, the law stays out of that one in the same way you can pretty much copy scripts and get away with it... Too hard for anyone to prove exclusive ownership of ideas.

And I don't know who made that model, but damn it looks awesome. (And for what it's worth IMO if it is a hack it wouldn't fall under porting if you tried to use it in SC, not that I expect you would)

We have uncontestable examples of such hacks with Total Annihilation that has been partly "hacked" for making SupCom, and with SupCom 2 -which is the most obvious hack- as it's clearly a copy of SupCom FA (mainly units).

SupCom was copyrighted THQ... Square Enix had no qualms to hack it.
And no one complained about that !...

<edit>
On the other hand, consider the case of Counter Strike that's originally a mod for Half Life.
Valve (the owner of HL) did not hesitate to take the whole content as if it was their own work and property for commercial reasons.
Now the mod is sold as a stand alone game copyrighted Valve !
(What about the moders in situation ?)

SC2 is not a direct carbon copy of FA. Take the SC 2 fatboy for example. It looks nothing like the FA fatboy. They are all new models that are not very similar to the old ones. This holds true for SC in comparison to TA as well. You are just making things up because the units are only the same in a gameplay point of view.

Counterstike was purchased by Valve. The modders sold (or licensed) the rights to their mod to Valve. If they sold it instead of just licensing it then Valve now has the exclusive right to develop and publish Counterstrike. I'm pretty sure the modders got hired by Valve as well. Anyhow, your arguments are once again invalid.

Well you wouldn't want carbon copy's on a new game or whats the point, A new games should have new content which apples to that games theme which FA and SC2 are both different themes becasue there stroy's are 20 years apart also look at the Fatboy 2 blueprint its the original blueprint from the FA fatboy, You will find most of the SC2 blueprints are FA ones also theres a lot of FA data left behind in them, I'm fine with removing ported units but ported effects and projs shouldn't be copyright.

It's clearly stated that all mods are the properties of GPG/Valve/Whatever, not the modder.