Wow, I'm really loving this mod, especially when an Ahwassa wiped out my ACU without me looking. Had this odd problem though, was playing AI Adaptive on Fields Of Isis, I was holding the top left position. My ally kept sending a couple of T1 units to my first Land Barracks and they go around repeatedly and get stuck there. I haven't seen T2 and above units there. Not sure why they kept sending units to my base and get stuck there, even when there's a fight going on near the entrance.
This also happened when playing with AI Balanced instead.

I'm currently playing FA 3599, I have this mod and Sorian's 1.9.8 installed. However, Sorian's AI was not used for any of these 2 games.

AI Adaptive chooses random types of AI, so it is hard to figure out what the problem is. Best to choose the types you want to play yourself, you can have land, air and a few others.

Using Crimson Editor,

In lua/ai/archtype - manager loader lua at line 86 there is a debug line.

# LOG('*AI DEBUG:Manager Loader lua ARMY ', repr(aiBrain:GetArmyIndex()), ': Initiating Archetype using ' .. base)

Remove the # and this opens this command line. Then every time you run your game if you use the F9 log you can see exactly what ai is being used by your current game.

Below is a sample of the in game log entry created by using the above command line on the adaptive ai setting


INFO: *AI DEBUG:Manager Loader lua ARMY \0002\000: Initiating Archetype using TurtleMain.

Moe

@moe: If you have my mod installed you dont need to edit anything... just enable debug and the log window and you can see what AI was selected

@Riotlung: As Dragon Fly the adaptive AI selects the best AI for the map with a random chance between certain AIs if the map could work with either AI. On Isis it might select and Air or Land AI.

In regards to the behaviour you mention - All the AIs will send units to the starting locations, including allies starting locations, if there is not enough defending units. This should only be early in the game so hence you dont see T2 units do it.

Is it possible to disable this feature? Somehow I can't seem to get rid of the units gathering around my land factory, even when I have set up PDs and AA.

You could use my AI Ally control mod (link in my sig) to quickly switch to the AI ally and move the units out the way.

As for a fix... Can you try it on Setons? Does it happen there? If it doesnt I will know what the issue is.

Hi duncane, in the game as we speak (Seton).

This gathering of units at my base did not happen (I'm at the upper half, near the middle/front). At around the 20th minute a couple of LABs and T1 tanks stayed at my base but some of them started to move off after a while. Majority of the units either went past my base or cut through it without stopping and incessantly trying to move around some building in my base.

A number of units seemed to be getting stuck on the right side of the map, trying to cross the water but being non-hovering non-amphibious. They start to move around randomly, similar to how they behave when gathering around inside my base on other maps.

Just a note on the large number of units collecting in the core of the base.

This seems to be being triggered by the BaseManagerDistressAI function. Units in the pool will move to deal with the distress call and then return to the core of the base. Ideally - once released, they should return to a rally point - but I haven't been able to work that out yet.

You can create this behavior by destroying a unit (not a structure) in the base area. The pool units will respond and then return to the base.

On that same subject, I note that your AI uses a different rally point procedure than Sorians'. Using the same map - Sorians will set a single rally point for ALL factories (Naval excluded) whereas yours seems to use the closest rally point on a per factory basis (which I greatly prefer).


Question is - are you using a map marker or the base patrol points to do it - and how?

Another note - on Setons - is it just me or is the AI unable to build extractors on the mass points on the small islands - specifically, the two right against the edge. I've seen the AI airlift dozens of engineers over there to build on those two points (both islands demonstrate this). Unfortunately - they never can - and more engineers get delivered until you have what resembles a reunion of the Gilligans Island cast and crew.

So I just need to kill some of the units gathering at my base and they should return to their own bases? That didn't work, I dropped about 3 tactical missiles from a TML and it didn't work.

Also, how can I attack my allies' units apart from using the TML?

Also, I recall that on that Seton's game I played (where the simspeed got pretty bad), some of my allies' units (we were at the top half) got stuck trying to get to the islands on the right side. They got to the shore and stopped there and occasionally went around as though they were patrolling. Could this affect simspeed?

I guess I wasn't very clear - once the Base Distress is triggered - these units will move around together - even after the reason for the distress call is done. The 'base' is not where they started from - but a point near where your Commander started the game. They never return to their starting spot.

Unlike 'platoons' which are formed by the AI during the course of the game for specific purposes - this is not a platoon - but more like a mob of whatever was hanging around at the time of the distress call. Everytime a new distress call is issued - by the base - the mob can potentially grow every time.

While the units will eventually get picked up for inclusion in real 'platoons' - they're often so choked up together that they have trouble forming up for the job they're supposed to do.

At present, the distress routine seems flawed, as the units will continually move around 'looking' for a threat - even if one doesn't exist. Every 7 seconds they are given a new 'threat' position to check out. They are issued an order to move agressively to that position - and then back to some random point near the base centre shortly afterwards.

Hi Duncane

I wonder if you could look into the anti nuke bit of your AI its seems to buld them alittle to late and you can catch it off guard alot with a nuke rush. Also it dont seem to build more anti nukes as the opposing nuke threat grows.

Thanks

Allway play with cheat AI
ethier one of these settings

1.3b 1.8r omni off
1.5b 2.0r omni on

In the Sorian AI adaptive is used to describe the AI type that picks based on the map, however the descriptions for the built-in AI don't make it clear if there's an equivalent there. Is random really random, or is it like Sorian in that it filters which AI types are appropriate then picks randomly? Or is it that adaptive does the same as Sorians and the description is rubbish?

For Supcom1 adaptive does the same kind of choices as Sorians AI. I have tweaked it of course

Thanks

is there any way u can mod a A.I to use new units and T4 units. like say i download a mod and a normal A.I wont use the new units. so is there any way u can fix that? plz reply.

AI support needs to be added by the mod. If it says it has Sorian AI support it will probably work with this AI mod too

ok thank you very much. and btw awesome job on this and all your mods posting.php?mode=reply&f=30&t=23929#

Continuing the ai discussion on the Blackops forum:

Disclaimer: I was not trying to create a versus thread or anything, i admire both modders and their work. Used to play sorian ai myself and found it quite enjoyable. I was just pointing out that from and end user point of view, the latest duncane build is superior to sorians in some regards, while sorians still has its own merits. This may even be attributed to sorian working on sc2, but i was giving credit to duncane on the latest build.

@LordMang
Can you give me the parameters of that matchup where you found the ai not attacking properly with blackops enabled.

The performance of the ai's is highly dependent on the map (more than the mods) so if there is unusual behavior, it can often be attributed to the map.

Ive mostly been using the two Aix Adaptive and found them to be generally more reliable than the other ais unless you want to restrict the ai to particular builds.

@vile,
Here are the parameters for the test where the AIs refused to move its land units out of its main base (they both sent aircraft after each other instead):

SupComFA version 3603 beta
Community BugFix v4
Duncane AI Patch 2.6.2 (I removed the Sorian AI and its .scd files just to be on the safe side)
Seton's Clutch map
AIx Land for both AIs (Cybran vs Aeon)
BlackOps: Unleashed, Global Icons, and ACUs


Since our chat, Exavier mentioned that BO:ACUs mod might be messing up Duncane's AI. So, I repeated the above test but only excluded the BO:ACUs mod.

Here are the results that I sent to Exavier in a PM just now:

Exavier,
The results were mixed when I enabled all the BlackOps mods (Unleashed + Global Icon) with the exception of ACUs.

The good news is that the AI did send waves of units (T1 - T3) at each other. It also built both stock and BlackOps experimentals. Looks like you were right about ACUs effect on the AI.

The bad news is that the AI still acted weird with regards to using the experimentals. Sometimes it would send a lone experimental out to the enemy base. Other times, it would just have the experimental sitting in its home base doing nothing.

For those experimentals that were sent out, they engaged weak targets like mexxes, even though the enemy army was firing huge barrages at them, ultimately destroying the experimental.

One experimental (Aeon Inquisitor) refused to fire on anything. It just marched blindly towards the enemy base, but was killed halfway there by enemy forces passing it by.

I'm going to try Sorian 2.1.1 and 1.99d AI versions to see what happens.

I found 1.99d to have very poor performance with 3603. Aix was more like Ai

Thanks for confirming. I expected as much. I read that Sorian 2.x.x was specifically designed for FA 3603 beta.

Any earlier versions (like 1.99d) were designed for FA 3599 and earlier FA versions.

@LordMang
I ran the same test (Cybran Duncane AIx land vs Cybran Duncane AIx Adaptive) and got the same results, This was surprising because ive hardly seen the ai behave this way before on sentons.

So I reran the test with sorian ai 2.1.1 mod installed but playing with Cybran Duncane Aix Land vs Cybran Duncane Aix Adaptive and this time both functioned properly. You can try it yourself and see the difference.

I think the Sorian ai either lends some scripts to Duncane or fixes some pathfinding problems but having both installed fixes the problem.

Im not sure of the effects of the Blackops ACU mod but ive not noticed anything significant yet.

I just tried Duncane's AI Patch, on Setons, and I used the Land AI.

I must say, tis better then Sorian =p Its much more aggressive XD

The fact that I got whooped with my own units is hilarious XD

Im more favoured towards the adaptive ai. It techs well and is quite unpredictable

According to the Duncane AI patch's readme file, Duncane AI does build on the some elements of the Sorian AI. However, the Duncane AI zipfile contains an scd file that contains all the Sorian AI elements that the Duncane AI requires (you put in the gamedata folder, which I did). Duncan did this so that you wouldn't need to install Sorian's AI.

I'll go ahead and re-install the Sorian AI and give it another shot. Note that I ran the Duncane AIx Land vs. Duncane AIx Land (and will do so again for this 2nd test).