wow, 1 years past, still beta...

3603 is better than 3599 but some change seems too dramatic:

• Cybran Hoplite health changed from 650 to 450
• UEF Mongoose health changed from 900 to 650

these adjustment make these unit useless without shield, change to 550-600 and 750-850 would be better.

o Energy Storage - explodes for 2000 damage in a 5 radius (from 500 damage 3 radius), and has 500 health (from 1200).

these change is too dramatic, SCU can build it as a bomb... 1000 damage in 4 radius and 800 health would be better (at least ACU suicide can't kill it, but one drop of T2 bomb can, and one ES can't kill T2 Power).

• T3 SAMs costs reduced significantly from 1400M 12000E to 800M 8000E

these change make SAM too strong, how about 1200M and about 10000E?

• Seraphim Advanced Regeneration Field no longer provides a health bonus. It was permanent and wasn’t removed if the unit left the aura.

how about increase the field size (maybe 25 -> 30?) to compensate the lost of HP bonus?

• Fixed restoration field upgrade and advanced restoration field upgrade to not repair the ACU.

how about give ACU 18.2% bonus (0.1% and 0.2%) instead of none?

• Firebeetle changed to deal 4500 damage, health lowered to 300, Firing tolerance increased to 100.

seems too strong damage, 3 can kill ACU... maybe 2000 damage is reasonable.

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update:
3603 patch rebalanced v020 thread here:
viewtopic.php?t=47237

Hoplites and Mongeese were too strong. The nerf forces them to be skirmisher units, not tank replacements like they were in 3599. Also, they were always meant to be skirmishers, staying at range and picking off targets. Hoplites + Deceivers are a lethal combination. They are far from UP after the nerf, they just have to be used like skirmishers, not tanks.

ES may have their damage reduced slightly, but the volatility makes them targets of opportunity as they are now the only source of energy storage. Build ESes wisely. The overall direction of the changes is good, just the numbers may be tweaked slightly.

The cost decrease weakens T3 air (good), especially when over an enemy base. The buff does not fix the problems of SAMs, so they are far from overpowered. SAMs cannot lead their targets and are prone to massive overkill, so just building more SAMs will often simply result in more OK.

Sera Regen field was OP in 3599. With the loss of the health bonus, the radius can be tweaked to a larger size, but no one else has complained about it.

No for ACU bonus. As seen in 3599, ACUs are pretty overpowered with the regen upgrade unless the costs are increased dramatically.

Firebeetles are still pretty useless thanks to its lowered health. The 4500 damage actually makes them useful in certain situations. The previous damage didn't do anything against larger targets, and IIRC, the Firebeetle was the most expensive Cybran T2 land unit. So much for such a weak unit. Now it's expense can actually be justified given some good micro with the unit.

However, THQ has no incentive whatsoever to release any form of a patch, so FA will stay at 3599 officially until the world ends. Now if you want to create a simple mod to make your desired changes for skirmish or LAN play with your friends, there is still a mod community for FA. Go down to the Mod Development section and you will find many people willing to help you with a simple balance mod to tweak FA to your tastes.

A patch should be cautious, over tweak just cost another problem.

about Hoplite and Mongoose: in 3603 MP, few people build them for the worse cost effective, with 450/650 HP, it's worse than T1 tank/art combination, and t2 tank got about 20% HP increase in 3603, setting them to 600/850 may be reasonable.

about T3 Air tower: compare to T2 Air tower, SAM is much cost effective, it will cause balance problem between t1 t2 t3 air tower, and since price of air force increased, cost effective for air force is much worse, i think 1200M/10000E already consider the 25% buffer for Cruiser Anti Air.

about Regen field ACU bonus: my suggestion is just 0.1%/0.2% for ACU, just 10HP/20HP for a naked ACU (maybe 0.2%/0.4% is still OK?), without such bonus, Regen field is worthless.

about fire beetle: in MP, low HP is not a problem using airdrop, 2 can kill T3 power, 3 can kill ACU, 1200 is too low but 4500 is too high, i think 5 beetle can't kill ACU is reasonable, that's 2000 damage.

The main question is WHEN will 3603 go official?


Edit: sory ddint see the answear.

SO WHY THE **** DOENST CHRIS DO ANYTHING ABAUT IT?

Spend money which he doesn't have on a game not making him money?

Chris might be a f**cking awesome CEO of a games company, but it's a company none the less, which needs to make Money.

haha

Not to mention a game that is directly competing with his current product.

Touche. Anyway, I think we proved the point. Not Gunna Happen.

I asked CT in an email several months ago; he said he was trying, but he cannot tell THQ to release the patch. They make their own decision. CT is as helpless as we are.

Since 1 year past, how about make a moderate 3604 patch?
I think 3603 is too aggressive, an example is Energy Storage and Fire Beetle: about 400% damage; T2 tank vs T2 bot: about 160%; T3 SAMs vs T3 Air: about 200%...
I can't say I like these changes, it's not only a patch, it's a mod that change the gaming experience totally, for example, "Aerial Supremacy" is not so important, SAMs can take the job; no more T3 bomber, it's not cost effective vs lots of cheap T3 SAMs.
In my experience, most unofficial patch/mod have the inclination to "over tweak", and the quality and balance is always doubtful (for example: double tweak).
My criticism can't represent the opinions of all the players, but considering the position of THQ, I think THQ don't want to release a too aggressive patch that may cause a lot of criticism.

I think officially FA is dead. But it seems like community efforts have been picking up so it could be the start of something greater.

Have you actually played with the patch? T3 bombers can go all around the map, sams don't move. The patch is 99% good. The only problems I found were addressed in the mod. (T1 commander transports)

What criticism? The only major criticism with the patch has been, like Remmy said, the T1 Com transports. The ACU deathnuke has been a subject in contention, but the patch mod has fixed that and the previous controversy.

Tanks are slow, bots are fast. If tanks are beating your bots, something is being done wrong. Tanks had their speed nerfed, if you didn't notice. Mongeese have a movement speed of 3.6. In 3603, the T2 tank has something like 2.7 (all T2 tanks & the Sera T2 bot have speeds between 2.5 and 2.7). Despite their higher hitpoints, their movement rate is now much slower than that of Mongeese and Hoplites. So kite!

"'Aerial Supremacy' is not so important." Good! T3 air was the most OP **** in 3599. You lost the air, you lost the game. Never mind how T3 air was far more efficient than land or naval. It is excellent how T3 air is now used wisely, not spammed and thrown around. Also SAMs can't move. Engineers are slow. With your T3 bomber, go take out the opponent's outlying mexes. Or go after his army, which still lacks a T3 mobile land counter to T3 air.

As far as we know, THQ has abandoned this game. The only support FA will get is unofficial support. The new 3603 ladder using the 3603 v2 patch mod is starting soon. Then we can see whether the content of the patch needs improving or not. In all of the discussions I have seen about the 3603 patch, not one of bebear01's complaints have been a major topic.

That's so sad if its the case, SC1 and FA are far better and more fun than SC2.

That the problem, people don't want to listen criticisms, i am not surprise.

just a simple question: do you have 300+ round MP experience with 3603 beta?

Bot kite Tank? do you really see someone build Mongoose? T3 Bomber take out outlying Mass? why not just use t1 transport carrying 2 art 1 engineer, to destroy and reclaim a L2 mass?

Don't worry, your concerns will be addressed once the 3603 custom ladder comes out. It's not that your ideas are wrong, it's just that this is the first time I have heard of these complaints. The 3603 patch mod is as of now the community's agreed-upon balance for FA. If the community decides your concerns are valid, once the custom ladder season is over, I'm sure steps will be taken to introduce a new mod with the necessary balance fixes. I can only comment on what I have seen and heard, and people are overall satisfied with this patch mod.

If you would like to put your changes into another mod to let others try it out or test your ideas in a real game, you are free to make a mod of it, it's not very hard, or if you are short on time, I may agree to make that mod for you, as I have a lot of free time.

Thanks for your kindness, i already being the job and it's almost finished now, not too complex if just for evaluation.

BTW, what's the mod FiringTolerance = 100 for fire beetle? many unit is default at 2.

That's the angular region in which the target has to be for the weapon to fire. Beams and projectiles actually need to aim properly, so they have small values - but seeing as the Fire Beetle just explodes it's best to have it as large a value as possible (maybe make it bigger).

I remember there was a Firebeetle bug where the unit had to turn before it could detonate. This change was meant to fix this.

blank

a question: how to disable ACU in T1 transport?

This question should be in Mod Development Support, but I think transports have specified unit types that it can take up. Or modify the ACU's transport slots so that it won't fit in a T1 transport.

The other way you can do this is to make only your changes in the mod and make it load after the 3603 patch mod. Your mod would then overwrite the changes in the 3603 mod and get your desired balance.

Thanks.