@dfs and you read all the comments on how this and that is overpowerd and sucks bad in the unit discussions in the other thread about FA?

Lots of peeps commenting on stuff they can not even imagine right...

Ignore it

I'm not worried when people don't like the AI. I'm just confused about beta hatred of the AI.

The AI isn't in the beta.

And yes, we're still working on the AI. The AI is up to date with the balance too.

I'm really excited about what the modders can do with the new AI.

Sorry, but am I wrong to say the AI sucks ?
Easy and medium are a complete joke....again.
The cheating AI is unplayable, the amount of cheating is just not balanced.
And even if it would be, it is just doing very bad moves most of the time.


The only thing the new Ai system gave us is a complete wipe of all the work which AI modders did for vanilla, letting them start at zero again with a braindead AI.

Will there be any patch for the AI, or again the comunity have to fix what should have been working on release already ?

Cya,

Firstly I'd like to say as some one who spent time modding the SC AI I want to say the FA AI structure is better (it takes getting used to of course) and allows for many mod choices.

Secondly as a reasonable ranked match player I can say the stock AI is much better to play against in FA. You need to play a few games against it on a variety of maps and hopefully you will see it performs well. Yes it does make mistakes or get stuck sometimes, but so do real players. Dont just judge it by one or two games.

I will agree with you that the cheat level is set too high by default, but we already have a community mod that allows that to be changed. Try using that mod and setting the cheat level to 1.2 build speed and income boost.

And yes there are a couple of bugs (e.g. experimentals not moving under certain situations) but they are no where near as many as you seem to portray.

Oh... and nice necro

Well, I dont want to bash the work done on the new AI system too hard (maybe I did).
The only way for me to judge the AI is by playing against it, I am not able to mod it by myself or look at its code for improvements.
After a few skirmish games I ended up using the tool from Sorian which you mentioned, its much better but still the modded vanilla AIs are way more fun to play against.
So I just have to wait a few weeks (months?) until kind modders fix the current AI.

Online play is not possible for me because my ping is around 500-800, even I have a 2 Mbit dsl line.
And we all know how friendly most hosts in our community are to high ping players.
I can't blame them as 500-800ms may really cause trouble.

Cya, If you can consistently beat the adaptive AI on a variety of maps (5km to 20km, water and no water) then you really should try ranked games. Ping doesnt matter in ranked and you will get a big buzz every game

You must be kidding. If you can't beat adaptive, well... Half the time the AI will build up for a bit and then just stop stone cold dead (particularly if there's water anywhere on the map). Or start building crazy expensive stuff before its economy can handle it. And of course not lift a finger to defend engineers, mass extractors or whatever and a thousand further braindead things.

I'm sure whatever is in SupCom:FA AI wise, is very clever. With a view to enabling modders to get in and create AIs. That's very welcome. However in terms of what's in the game right now, the AIs are virtually worthless.

They don't remotely touch Sorian on SC1. So I'm just not seeing any evidence of the game shipping with anything that's functionally any better.

Lurkah,

Yeah sure the AI stops sometimes but its not every game. Give it a few goes. And yes you should be able to beat the AI ... I just said you should do that consistently before trying ranked - imagine not being able to beat the AI and trying ranked

Anyway for clarification, the major bugs I have seen reported about FA AI are:
- commander sometimes stops altogether and doesnt do anything further for the game. (I think theres a bug in one of the scripts and when it hits it the thread for the com behaviour dies)
- commander sometimes starts building factories and the stops half way through and starts another. This isnt common, but I have seen it myself.
- Land experimentals dont move sometimes.
- Navy units dont move

Any others?

and yeah I think sorian has already addressed most of these (although his current version has a bug in com behaviour too)

I think the biggest issue is that the AI doesn't use squads effectively. You tend to get rushed early with small numbers of units. It also seems to take too long to get the economy running, lots of unupgraded mex and nearby unused mass points unexploited.

The original SupCom AI basically just used to tech up and send in experimentals one by one. Which if you're a complete novice puts a timetable on taking them out. Now I can barely recall seeing an experimental actually do anything at all.

And there's the complete broken nature of the AI on water. Any map with water. Any of the AI flavors. Again dribs and drabs of naval units then they give up and sit back, not teching up, not expanding the economy.

Yet every AI base you fly over has 50 unused transport aircraft. If only those were ships!

You are definetely right

- when an Ai sends 6 bots in a 'train' fashion to your base it is hardly feeling like it is rushing you. if they arrived in attack formation already they could kill an engineer or even jut a military bot or 2, but in the state being they just bring reclaim mass to the ennemy base ocassionally this wannabe rush will scratch the paint on one of your t1 tanks.

- The Ai would be better rushing at the right time tech/econ/industrial upgrade is the only thing that matters at the beginning of the game timing sizing and organising the rush is essential 6 bots are better used as mex engineer harassment, but 10-15 bots 1 minutes later can very well put your opponent econ on its knee especially if your opponent is an AI that builds T1power gen farms. And if you are playing on a 10k map you will want to wait for tech 2 or ferrys to support your first and probable only rush attempt. so much the Ai has to be teached.

the economy is most of the time slow to start because of the gimmick used to start it. the Ai build order is set in stone and decided when you choose the AI personality in the lobby before the game, obviously a BO that works good on a 20k island map with lots of mexes around will not be as good on a 5k land map with almost no mexes like winter duel. the tricks are ...;

1- the ideal, getting rid of the build order set in stone and replace it with situation dependant orders.

2- the middle ground one, having an optimised BO for most maps and most strategies.

So is there a confirmation that those 3 dev's are working on a patch to help the AI?

I am curious about this as well, I would like them to at least try to keep their AIs competitive with sorians, I mean he is not even getting paid to do this stuff.

no everything he does is opensource, so is my work and duncanes, the architecture though is not.

besides what everybody seems to think we dont start from scractch the architecture of the Ai is something we barely mod at all , and it in its whole represents an amount o work that we modders are not even challenging.

we mod , they developped.

we may sometimes disagree with what they did or how they did it but we have to work with that since it would be an overwhelming task to start it all from scratch anyway, there is already a truckload of code behind a commander wlaking 5 meters and building something.

now dont get me wrong it is just speculation but skirmishes Ai refinement is not on their priority list. I bet GPG is working on multiplayer balance and bug fixes rather than making the skirmishes AIs meaner. They may be addressing some of the Ai key bugs though but they are not going to add features or refinement.

this thread is old anyway and was created long before FA release assume that everything discuss here has already been done or not been done.