[REL-FA] Blackops: Special Weapons v1.3 (Vaulted)

Exavier Macbeth

Mithy wrote:

You might want to give it a new default folder name when you re-release it. Some people are bound to still be running older, abandoned mods that require the first version of BOGIS, and they might not realize that it wouldn't be a good idea to overwrite the old version if they have mods that need both.

LMAO I am not too concerned about that because of the following:

1) Next version of BOGIS will have a conflict list containing previous versions so you couldn't start two of them at the same time. Besides the game throws a merry fit when you do run 2 of them at once (trust me I tried it).

2) As per the instructions from implimenting support for BOGIS in a mod I requested that their authors let me know in the BOGIS thread. So far there are only 3 non-blackops mods that have taken up official support. I will be PMing each of them the information to update. If they choose not to thats up to them. If the project is abandoned then its a simple enough fix for someone to pick it up and change (or remove) the required tag in the mod_info.lua and rerelease it without changing anything. I dout the original owner would complain too much in that situation.

Besides my biggest worry is the custom scripts in those legecy mods overrighting portions of BOGIS because of the way they are scripted. Because that is more or less beyond my control. Remember there where icon scripts before BOGIS that use the same functions I did.

EDIT: And I don't support issues when ppl don't read directions. All my mods recommend removal of old versions before install new

HAL 9000

Exavier Macbeth wrote:

Sounds about right.

Basically the disruptor is a very light & cheap experimental. That beam gives it a heck of an offensive punch but it still only has 26,000 total health on the unit. An ML's primary beam does something like 4000 dps once it gets close enough to open fire. And unlike the disruptor's firing cycle the ML beam is continuous.

I just found out that it eats naval units. Seriously.

Especially since its floating... (not scooba-diving)

Exavier Macbeth

Was wondering how long it would be before someone found out that it can fire while on the water

The downside to that though is that arty & TMLs can take pot shots at it while its crossing islands unlike other experimentals that can walk underwater

ShamusZ3R0

Any news on progress? Want new satellite nao. ):<

Exavier Macbeth

New Satellite isn't anywhere near completion

However the new release is more or less done but like all the other Blackops Projects its waiting for me to finish the changes to BO:ACUs and hawk to finish adjusting Unleashed v4 before we do a mass release of the projects.

the86th · **Joined:** 01 Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 244

I'm confused as to where this unit pack fits within the rest of BO. Is it meant to go with Unleashed? If so, why not give them to Hawkeye rather than make another mod?

Exavier Macbeth

the86th wrote:

I'm confused as to where this unit pack fits within the rest of BO. Is it meant to go with Unleashed? If so, why not give them to Hawkeye rather than make another mod?

The main reason is because Unleashed has grown to some 270mb in size. Because of that size (and the fact that it takes me about an hour to upload it to the vault) its been more or less decided that its easier to maintain & bugfix it than it is to continuously expand on its content.

That being said Special Weapons & Alternate Reality are "Unit Addon" packs for Unleashed to make it easier for us to update quicker. After all its easier to release patches & updates for a 20mb mod than to keep expanding Unleashed. Basically these mods can be used independantly but the supporting scripts (Anti-Teleport, Teleport Controls, Transparent Cloak, ect) are not included in them... In order to get full balanced use out of these mods they do need to be run with Unleashed

Basically the rundown of Blackops Projects:
-Global Icon Support : Utility script to load all icons properly reguardless of mod.
-Unleashed : Core unitpack & Master script package.
-Advanced Command Units : My ACU changes. Also contains master scripts found in Unleashed for stand alone support.
-Balance : Game balance adjustments as we see them.
-Naval Balance : Rebalance of all naval assets. Kept seperate from Balance because I am not done changing it yet.
-Special Weapons : Practical unit designs to continue where unleashed left off & My custom units.
-Alternate Reality : Wimsical unit designs. Basically whatever looney thigns we wana try. Balance not garenteed.
-Vault Dummy : Dummy mod only found in the vault set up to help queue up download of all other mods at the same time.

But yes all the mods are designed to run together. Its just its become easier to maintain multiple projects then a single large package. Unleashed is technically complete as of the next version. I dout Hawk will make anymore additions to it beyond bugfixes after v4 is released.

the86th · **Joined:** 01 Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 244

Ok, got it now. The way you introduced this mod in the OP just made it sound like this might be Unleashed's illegitimate half-brother or something.

OrangeKnight

the86th wrote:

Ok, got it now. The way you introduced this mod in the OP just made it sound like this might be Unleashed's illegitimate half-brother or something. :P

Well, its not THAT far from the truth, espcially when you consider Alternate Reality.

Mike

AngelRay · **Joined:** 22 Feb, 2007 **Posts:** 49

Hello,

Maybe i'm wrong, but yesterday, i was playing a game with this mod activated (and some others (BlackOp unleashed, 4th dimension...)
i was playing Cybran but with sorian IA ally i had a engineer.

The point:

i was able to build stellar generator (which are good looking, seriously, i like them!) with uef scu. But i had no other "special" units (like the disruptor you've been so long talking... and i wanna try it!)

I have dl the zip version here...

Am i missing something? how to build "other" special units?

Exavier Macbeth

If you had a UEF SCU then the Disruptor shoulda been in the same experimental tab as the Stellar Generator. If its not then you might not have the mod properly installed (check for double folders). If thats the case I would try the SCD or the Vault versions.

shadowmurderer · **Joined:** 16 Feb, 2009 **Posts:** 117

actually it could be just a simple case of him using a t3 engineer to try to build a t4 which can only be built by an SCU or an ACU. Because BlackOps makes some units only buildable by SCU's or ACU's if you have another faction's engineer you have to build a quantom gate in order to get an SCU which can then build the restricted experimentals.

Exavier Macbeth

shadowmurderer wrote:

actually it could be just a simple case of him using a t3 engineer to try to build a t4 which can only be built by an SCU or an ACU. Because BlackOps makes some units only buildable by SCU's or ACU's if you have another faction's engineer you have to build a quantom gate in order to get an SCU which can then build the restricted experimentals.

That doesn't effect the experimentals in SpecWep as I haven't coded them to yet

shadowmurderer · **Joined:** 16 Feb, 2009 **Posts:** 117

now I feel like an idiot.

jchardin · **Joined:** 18 Dec, 2009 **Posts:** 114

I just downloaded this, and I like it! Especially the Hellfire sattelite. Um... is it possible to make the Defense sat fire at aircraft? Because that would be even better!

OrangeKnight

Um, the New Hellfire Sat is part of Unleashed.

Mike

Exavier Macbeth

lol
There is no added sat weapon in SpecWep yet... its still in development. The only sat weapons in any blackops projects are in Unleashed atm.

Exavier Macbeth

Moving posts from Unleashed thread...

Exavier Macbeth wrote:

LMAO I knew that was the responce I would get which is why I have left everyone watching the SpecWep thread in suspense over the sat plans... Your guys really should know me better by now :roll:

First the base station will be cheap as the sat costs will vary depending on role. This way the you get a variable experimental depending on which sat you want. This also means using them as SMD distractions won't be cheap especially since they will only take a single SMD missile to drop.

Second the conditions for SMD targeting aginst the sats will vary. Actually I plan to make it so it doesn't become targetable to the SMD untill it is "tracked down". No they will not have stealth but it will be more based on their activities such as firing. Basically its to simulate the enemy triangulating the position of the sat each time it fires till a threashold is reached and they get a lock.

This means you will be able to use the weapons aginst a base (heck even shooting the SMD) for a limited amount of time before the SMDs start spitting missiles at them. The idea is to make another way to take them down besides trying to do a sergical strike aginst the base station.

As for making a deticated anti-sat weapon... I don't see the point unless I added sats to every faction & turned it into a full battle layer... which i am lazy & its too much work

EDIT: As for drainign SMDs of their missiles I dout that will be an effective tactic. Especially since they would not only have to spend the time/resorces to build & launch each sat but also spend the time using them in combat to get them noticed by SMD... if they are doing that then I am pretty sure the defending player wouldn't mind shooting the pesky things down. But they arn't going to be as spammable as people seem to think they will be

EDIT2: Basically to make the sat targitable we are actually attaching a stratigic projectile to the sat with an AOE detonation... the SMD missle isn't actually hitting the sat... its detonating the projectile which is causing splash damage to the sat (which is still untargettable). I can control when that projectile is spawned on the sat thus enabling SMD to open up on it.

If I remember right the Aeon sat does the same thing (its where the idea came from) by spawning the projectile during its charge sequence... This technically should allow it to overfly SMD as long as its on hold fire mode

Exavier Macbeth wrote:

Novax in BO:U are probobly going to stay the same... And yes this discussion should be moved to the SpecWep thread. My SpecWep version will replace it when I get it finished and I will simply remove the default from the menu sorta like how I replaced the ACUs.

Though chances are if hawk likes them enough they may be moved into the core package anyway

@aeoncleanse: The reason I am making these changes are 2 fold...

1) The "Weak weaponry but untouchble" thing always bugs me. The fact that you need to build 5 weapons that are 3 times the cost of the Cybran ML means that to "become totally invincible" you need to have been able to fight off 15 spider bots worth of resorces. I have done this but it also means your enemy is probobly not much of a threat to do anyway

2) I wanted to bring the sats more on par with normal units (or at least light experimentals) so that I could balance them a bit differently. This allows me to actually make the weapons on the sats vary enough to make them role focused. The side effect of them eventually all being able to be shot down is basically just the same hazards of taking an ML into battle, someone eventually will notice it and take it out.

Basically the sats will not nessissarily be superweapons but they will be useable as something worth the costs. At least more than the current Novax is anyway. Its also designed so that the player chan choose what they would like to use the weapon for. The planned types are:
-Spy Sat : Unarmed recon that can essentually be parked somewhere. SMD Vulnerability will be on a simple timer from when launched.
-Defense Sat : Normal laser sat for precision strikes aginst single units. Chances are I will make use of the little bit of armor system the game has to amplify the damage by alot when it is hitting a unit... that way it can't break shields but still has enough punch to sink ships. SMD Vulnerability based on shots fired.
-Hellfire Sat : Basically the AoE barrage sat from Unleashed to cause a very wide area damage. About what it currently does though will probboly get some slight balance changes. SMD Vulnerability based on volleys fired.
-Support Sat : High yeild EMP discharge designed to flatten shields & stun units/defences. Basically a turtle breaker but does absolutly no real damage by itself. SMD Vulnerability the moment it fires off its first shot.

So in essence you will have 4 different sat weapons and its up to the player to choose the right one for the job. While its true normal units may be able to perform these roles as well I will state that normal units are usually countered by ASF or Defence spam where a sat is not. The counter for these sats is that eventually an SMD will take it out forcing you to rebuild it (or choose another sat)

aeoncleanse

Moved from Unleashed:

Thank you for detailing it like that. Lets get started.

Spy:
As you have it here, it will be utterly, utterly useless unless it costs less than 3000 mass. A LOT LESS. The reason: Eye Of Rhianne M=3000 E=48000(Irrelevant late-game). This unit give instantaneous recon to any place on the entire map for a small E/s cost (5000). It can be built quickly and easily and is small enough to be given high level shield protection.

Lets see about the downsides of the current Satellite:
LOS = Unknown, but to balance with eye it will have to give Omni 'Radar' Radar sized LOS... Really not what we want...
Has prerequisite (Base Station)...
Is almost certainly going to be more expensive in total, as the Base must have AT LEAST the same cost as the Eye...
Has to MOVE to its intended target...

Upsides: Just one that I can see, the lack of an energy drain, but unless it exceeds 20,000 an energy drain is pointless late-game anyway.

What I would do: Larger radius than the Eye, probably by 50%. Also have basically a complete Omni sensor on the unit, full radius and everything. Make this Satellite totally invincible, apart from base destruction. You can't kill the Eye's effect after all. This should be the fastest unit in the game. It should have at least 5000/s Energy drain, to match the Eye.

Defence: I like. Fantastic idea on the armour system usage, but I have an addition. Give it a maximum 'distance from base' travel radius, as has been suggested multiple times. Give it 10 shots before being able to be shot down, but since it should be confined that won't matter.
Mass = ~150,000
Energy = ~1,000,000
Power level = Ability to single-handedly destroy an ML in 2Km. Beam should be unable to effectively combat hordes of units. Experimental/Battleship destroyer. The most powerful of the Satellites in terms of sheer DPS. Third fastest Satellite.

Hellfire: 3 volleys fired before vulnerability. Make the shots spread out more than they do at the moment, and have a single salvo deal ~10,000 damage. Allow the unit to move while firing. Make most of the damage a fiery DoT effect (I think it is now, no?). This unit cannot be used to destroy a base unless used in tandem with the 4th Satellite, or unless the SMD is taken out b a Bomber or something. Primary use is taking out incoming armies of T1 and T2, and a whole salvo concentrated CAN, on occasion, be enough to take out a Percival or Brick army (Hence 10,000 damage figure)
Mass = ~40,000
Energy = ~300,000

Support: Brilliant. Just make sure it instantly disables ALL shielding withing impact area, as well as all Resource Production, Factories, Radar, Stealth, etc. In theory it should disable all SMDs too, and so it should, but make it spawn the nuke projectile at start of firing, and make the sequence long, so that the SMDs take it out before it fires. You know what I mean. Should get more than one shot, really, depends on what you make the AOE. Say, Ahwassa AOE = 3 shots before SMD. Nuclear detonation radius = 2 shots before SMD. My personal favourite, as I think this unit should be spectacular, Vulnerable after 1 shot, but give it a range the same as a Seraphim T4 Nuke.

We can work this out. how far is the unit in terms of functional code? (i know you are waiting on OrangeKnight for a model, but I guess you hooked a test version up to existing models...) Lets do this, and well done on thinking up the Categories.

PS. I thought of something the Spy could have as an extra. Give it a field, static, say T1 Radar range. Every 30 seconds, and randomly chosen T1, T2 or T3 unit is picked from that radius and transferred to your side. Sabotage and Corruption FTW

Exavier Macbeth

Hehe...

Spy:
That depends on your point of view actually. I am treating the base station as a "factory" for purposes of balance. That being said unless you want to caculate a T1/2/3 factory & T3 engineer into your cost comparisons I can easily keep the spy sats cost below the Optics facilitie's 3000 mass cost

Though in truth until I get it working I won't quote final prices. But basically this sat is designed to be the UEF's representation of the Eye or Perimiter monitor. I am not going to say its the BEST option out of the 3 as chances are it won't stack up to its competition... But it makes is an avalible option. That and the other sats arn't going to have very good visual range when I am done so one of these floating around will make picking targets easier

Remember I plan to make it so each base station can control multiple sats (though it may be limit 1 before upgrade) so its possible to mix and match to meet your needs.

The main reason to make it destroyable is because you can attach it to a unit. Basically tell it to follow and it will stalk that unit around the battlefield. Imagine doign that to an enemy commander.... If it was unkillable then the defending player could never get rid of it short of killing the base station. This way eventually the defender can get rid of said sat and force you to build another one. Sorta like using a disposable spy plane only this one lasts alot long since SAM spam can't hit it

Defence:
Actually the Maximum Range limitation has actually been discussed in idea generation about this sat and is on the list to see if I can pull it off in an efficient manner. If I can then it will be range limited.

Hellfire:
Stats pending implimentation but Hawk's hellfire sat is already pretty close to what I want it to do... Though I will probobly give it an effects makeover & some balance tweaks.

Support:
Actually the weapon for this is already coded. It was actually the original idea for a new UEF sat weapon and eventually evolved into the factory concept.

Your thinking too big on the blast as again its not a game ending super weapon that you keep comparing it to. I don't do full out game enders as its aginst my concept of adding additional stratagies to the game. That being said it still has a very large blast (bout the size covered by a T3 shield bubble) but the stun durration varies depending on how far the unit is from the blast. Actually the EMP weapon on hawk's Cybran T4 Transport was created after I described my plans for the sat to him. He liked the idea of it and began playing with the stacking stuns.

The reason it will be SMD Targettable AFTER its first shot is to garentee you didn't just flat out waste your money on the thing... unless you pick the wrong target anyway lol. Its designed to help soften up a base in a siege but also to be used aginst armys moving across the field. A well placed EMP followed up with TMLs could be quite devistating to the poor units who suddenly can't change direction

Note: I am not going to discuss stats or costs because I already have my baselines outlined. Untill I get them functional ingame for weapons/tactics field testing & setting of final numbers I am not going to discuss the costs as they may vary

EDIT: Btw I think Orange Knight Might take offence to being called Resin... Remember Resin does not work on Blackops Projects

And also the way your post sound it makes it seem like your trying to direct development on this. I will accept suggestions as always but keep in mind in this case its already been in planning for over a month so alot of the stats & design are already ironed out... just not implimented till I have models that can support the mechanics.

Mithy · **Joined:** 19 Jul, 2009 **Posts:** 2972

Sounds pretty good. The EoR is imbalanced anyway, and really needs the scrying cooldown and radius reduction that the Community Balance Patch gives it.

However, I would suggest giving the Spysat straight up Omni, even if not as wide as its vision radius. That would help set it apart from the other two factions' offerings, as it could shadow a single cloaked/stealthed unit and keep it from hiding, or reveal cloaked firebases in a BO:U game-- assuming they don't have SMD.

Range limitation on a satellite would be fairly easy, and would have no sim impact when you're talking 1-5 units per game. Just do what the Goliath drone script does, and cut off its command caps and tell it to head back. 20-30 units back inside the max range, unlock controls and tell it to stop.
There is probably a way to detect its current destination and simply issue a stop/cancel if it's beyond max range, but I don't know how to do that.

Are you using whole-unit upgrades or just enhancements for the basestation improvement? I'd think enhancements would work fine, and would help dodge satellite-transferring issues that come with an upgrading unit.

jchardin · **Joined:** 18 Dec, 2009 **Posts:** 114

I don't think there should be a maximum range from the launching station. I mean, RL sattelites can go anywhere in Earth orbit, flying over China, Europe, even circling the north and south poles. If SMD's can shoot sattelites down, then I don't see how it's too OP to have it capable of going anywhere on the map.

OrangeKnight

jchardin wrote:

I don't think there should be a maximum range from the launching station. I mean, RL sattelites can go anywhere in Earth orbit, flying over China, Europe, even circling the north and south poles. If SMD's can shoot sattelites down, then I don't see how it's too OP to have it capable of going anywhere on the map.

Not really, Sats can only carry so much fuel, and even then, its no used to pilot them around, its for adjustments to make sure it keeps its planned orbit/position.

Mike

Exavier Macbeth

@Mithy: I've thought about the omni... We will see. And the range limitation is easy I just have to decide how I wana impliment it as I can think of about 3 ways.

I actually intend to just do a simple upgrade. I have more experience with manipulating those then factory/mex style upgrading which means less prep work & bug hunting to make it work. Besides your correct that transfering them would be somewhat of a pain lol

@jchardin: lol Technically if you wana apply RL mechanics to the sats they wouldn't need to move even to fire. Remember the biggest SupCOm map is what an 81km square? Thats a shorter distance than I drive to work every day.

The movment limits on the Defense Sat is to keep it as a defense weapon rather than offensive. Basically you could consider it a mobile heavy PD if you want. Though on smaller maps it may not make any difference at all but on medium to large maps it would be limited in use. I will impliment it as planned however we will see if the mechanic sticks around for more than a version or two

the86th · **Joined:** 01 Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 244

How will this support satellite's EMP work with layered shields? Could I build a support and hellfire satellite and use the first to knock all the supporting shields down and the second to level everything around the SMDs? Will the EMP knock out SMDs?

[REL-FA] Blackops: Special Weapons v1.3 (Vaulted)

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