And I really don't understand why you fear external modification.

If we were up to that, I take BO now without your permission, do whatever I want with it, what can you do ?

I think I've prove that I can be trusted with some other mods (Closed beta of nomads for exemple)

An answer would have already been a big thing. It's not denying, it's ignoring.

Of course it sounds like a composite of mod projects, because it is. It's a composition of one of "my" (I started it with Kekouse, but it's a group effort) older -community- project (the Community Bug Fix patch, you know, the thing that turned into 3603 ?) and the idea that Galactic War would have been cool with only a game lobby and patching.


You don't need to adjust as you already provide it as a SCD form. The adjustment is needed to turned mod (labwars, murderparty) into SCD.

At the time of my request, the beta was available, the first featured mod was there too, and the forum/website up.
If you didn't realize it was a full game lobby (our goal is a TA-Spring-like lobby), it's because you never take a single minute to test it, or even read a post about it

You don't know where to download it ? It's a sticky on the supcom forum, right here. I've also send the link in PM. My god, click here : http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Forged+Alliance+Forever&l=1. It was hard, wasn't it ?

Sorry but I'm a little pissed off. I was ignored several times when asking you to be part of the project, and now you say that we don't provide the infos you need ? Don't ignore me immediately and you will have that info !

All the others concerns are a poor understanding of the system. I'm sorry that FAF is not good enough for you. But now if you don't realize that Featured Mod is particularly good at supporting your kind of mod, I really can't do anything for you.
(and sorian is fully integrated, not as featured mod, but as part of FA code - And for his awful bug that nobody can fix, see the bottom of the previous page)

Ze_PilOt- i understand your frustration, and i apologize if it seemed like i was purposely ignoring you, as that was never my intention. i honestly just didn't have the time or, to be honest, a great interest in FAF to look it up and do more research. However as i view that unleashed is going to essentially be coming to an "end" so to speak my interest is peaked. whenever i can find the time i would like to go into detail about FAF and find out a lot more about it.

also if it was every implied that FAF was not "good enough" i also apologize about that as well, was not our intention, just a lack of understanding on our part.

i take it you guys are using Bitbucket for the repository? if so, awesome, love bitbucket .

On that note when i can find suitable time to actually mod without interruption i'll be working on getting the next version of Unleashed up and running.

Yes, we are using bitbucket for everything.

If you fear that a future patch will break something, you can check what is coming here : https://bitbucket.org/thepilot/forged-a ... changesets and tell us before we really push it to the users.

All the Featured Mods are there too (https://bitbucket.org/thepilot/faf-labwars/ for exemple, nomads is private

I'm working on a feature for featured mods author so they can automatically create a patch from the repository, any time, when they want to do it.

I'm angry because I was wandering about this forum, looked at this thread by curiosity, and discover all these things without having any clue of all that. Angry because your denial is based on assumptions (based on more or less clueless users) and not facts.

I know that time is precious, but it's the same amount of time to answer to a user on a forum than answering my PM.
And that way, we all gain time instead of losing a lot of it in these discussions.

I'm not aware of the problems of FAF and Blackops- Except the Sorian AI problem (fixed). If it's the only one, all the work it will take is renaming the .scd into a .faf (or .bo if you want), and create a one-line lua file.

@Ze_PilOt: I will ignore the deliberate comment about copyrights because I think its just a frustrated attempt to pick a fight and I really don't feel like digging all that crap out a 5th time on these forums.

As for your other frustrations... Perhaps you should check your "Outbox" PMs if you don't delete them... I never once received a PM from you with any information regarding FAF no did I know you where one of the people working on it until someone quoted your name in regards to the AI Custom Unit issue. I only found out recently that Hawk got a PM from you but it seems no one else on the team did.

Its hard to test something or have all the information when you don't know where to find it in the first place. I didn't even know what FAF stood for until the issue came up where the AI wasn't using custom units. Until then I was under the assumption it was some form of Total Conversion Mod similar to the original 4th Dimension.

As for a sticky... I don't see one here. If your referring to SupCom General Discussion, I have more or less avoided that place on the forums since shortly after SupCom2 (a game I will never buy) came out. Since my intrest with FA at that point was strickly modding & LD likes to move modding related topics to Mod Talk there was no reason for me to keep poking my nose into a place full of SupCom2 discussions.

EDIT: anyway I am not going to argue about it any further. Until I have time to look at FAF's information since I DO have a link to the site now its sorta a moot point.

EDIT : Moving all that in PM.

Ugh, I hate watching all these things unfold while I'm at work, because now everything is already finished and I didn't get to say anything! xD

Mike

either way it is done and over with ;p

Yes, slowed game down and all. I originally thought it'd be an illusion. But actually it is turning the wrong direction. LOL

Yea i actually just confirmed that myself and informed mike, we'll have that fixed for the next version

I was wondering if the BlackOps team would be willing to give the czar a shield. Perhaps a shield of 5k hp while reducing its hull hp by 5k or so in orde to keep the total to about the same. And in addition to that, remove it's shield when in Planet Cleanser mode. I think this change could help in it's survivability or rather it's long term usefulness as it would regen hp and shields at the same time but it would still have it's overall low hp, keeping it from being soo beefy that it wouldnt require much support to enter decimate a base. This way it can take light shots with out too much issue but any decent AA emplacements or force would still be capable of bringing it down like before. Not to mention the added vanity bonus of having a nice shiny shield on the czar to emulate fond memories of the independance day movie.

I'm assuming you wanted this in the BlackOps: Unleashed Thread so....

Thread Merged

Mike

As much as anyone liked the Nuke packing Invincible-shielded Independence Day Saucers and as much as such a unit screams EXPERIMENTAL (and it was a carrier too!).

I think I like the Czar as is; Though I think an AR unit of this type might be neat.
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Ok, an Idea the Artemis Sat, maybe model changed (nothing too crazy) to deploy into a disk? Then give it a shield instead of HP routine (same overall dmg tanking ability) so that it will recover from ONE maybe two ASat missile strikes but after that... it's taking real hits (this would give it a little bit of an easier time for players to use; not quite so OMG ASat silo! must not go anywhere near)

Next idea: Mobile ASat capability
This took me a while to think up (and be fair) so please at least look at it

Cybran: Specialized ASat capable aircraft (much like the one the U.S. came up with during the Cold War). The plane would do rather wimpy damage; be expensive, and totally vulnerable to other aircraft. The Artemis would still be Very powerful (especially if you give it that shield) but you could kill it... but at a steep price. (making killing the base station still the FAR better option)

UEF: Mobile anti-orbital Gun. Again weak damage; specialized, but with the added complication of being slow and soft (basically the kind of thing to move into an area to try and take territory when the Artemis lurks overhead (killing the Base-station still the better choice to getting the land you want but in a pinch...)

Aeon: let Artemis Sats Kamikaze each other (yeah you DEFINITELY don't want to do it, but if you gotta...)

Seraphim: (I admit this took the longest to think up, still don't like the incompleteness) The Exp. Dreadnaught can shoot down nukes already. Just give it a (weak) ASat missile system to go with the Anti-Nuke and you're set.

i´ve read the two previous posts and sadly i think no to both of them. shielded experimentals fit more with the uef (since they already have a few), and also because i just dont think the czar should get or fits with a shield.

and the other one, i do not think this is a good idea either. strategic missile defense being the only think to shoot down satelites fits the game and is balanced enough.

hmm, i do see your point about consistency in style. The UEF do mainly deploy shields with their units, and the Cybran have stealth. I suppose the Aeon would have accuracy and high damage output. Although I'd still love to see the Czar with a shield partly for nostalgia's sake and for immediate survivability like you mentioned with your buff concept for shielding the Artemis Satellite, I do think that I have to begrungingly agree with your point in keeping respective styles. With that in mind, whoever placed the planet cracker into the Czar, it was brilliant move as it keeps very much into the Aeons style.

Personally I would like to see the Czar with some more survivability so that it might be a closer counterpart to the colossus (high damage, high hp), but Im concerned with how effectively this can be done without overpowering the Czar making it too beefy or reducing it's cost to a point where it almost becomes a mandatory build or a spammed experimental.

Perhaps increasing the crash damage radius, considering when it crashes (typically near the enemy) it will give them a tremendous mass boost for them to recover anyway. Another idea, since it seems blackops has given the teleportation ability (over short distances) heavily to Aeon. Perhaps give this ability to the Czar. The Czar will only be able to teleport short distances (similar to the T3 transports they already have), add an appropriate energy cost and charge time ofcourse, and make the teleportation ability only available when the Czar is in it's aerial mode (non-planet cracker) thus forcing it to change modes for the more destructive style. A short teleportation ability would force the Czar to be near an enemy base thus alerting the enemy that there's a Czar nearby through intel (the usual recon that should always be done or a T2 or T3 radar). This in a way gives the Czar some survivability in the sense of being able to get closer to a base but is still balanced in that I cant just jump my Czar into a base without any risk of being found out and destroyed with a small pack of T3 ASF. Even if they dont want to go out to the Czar, the enemy can just partol a bunch of ASF in their base and/or spam T2 and T3 AA gun emplacements in their base in the time it would take the Czar to charge before it could teleport. And Black Ops already has a basic defense against teleportation for each faction, the Anti-Teleport Towers, allowing someone to stop teleportation not only through an active agressive stance and through building adequate AA in base but also allows a passive defense with the Anti-tele towers. Also if there is a big concern that a teleporting Czar attack would be too clandestine, then perhaps the Czar could give away it's location to the whole map as soon as the teleportation is activated, so this way the target is obviously alerted and the rest of the map knows what's going on as well. This would make the teleportation not favored as much as simply flying the Czar into the base as it would reveal to all that I have a Czar and the remaining enemies can easily counter it and any other Czars by building even half way decent AA against it.

TLDR; I really like the Czar, i want it to be more useful.
Buff Ideas: shield, hp, higher regen, larger damage radius for it's crash, short range teleportation (my current fav.)

EDIT: Added additional possible defenses against a teleporting Czar.

That, and Anti-Teleport towers could be a really nasty surprise for your Czar...

sorry but a Teleporting Czar just SCREAMS abuse, even with AT towers. good idea but not one that i think will be happening anytime soon.

I rather do like your ideas for Anti-orbital weapons Achronus, it is something i will consider(we'd only need to actually make two new units plus they fit and i like em)

BUT, problem with that is Cybran would be able to deal with the Artemis anywhere since theirs would be an air craft, UEF would be able to protect their land armies but not naval armies, Aeon vs Aeon would be a WHOGETSFIRSTARTEMISRACE and Seraphim would only be able to protect their naval armies.

maybe if Aeon and Seraphim got a better mobile option then it would be better to introduce some mobile(if a bit weak) anti-sat weapons

Shield for the Artemis, i like this idea, i may consider it(no point in making a new model for it though), Exavier had a mod for a shielded Czar back in vanilla, im not sure if he ever planned to bring it back(i personally didn't exactly like it)

Hey. Just registered to say that please make blackops available in FAF. I wanna try it.

Cheers

Me.

You can already try it, BlackOps is compatible with all 3 main versions of FA(GPGnet, Steam and FAF) the only issue you might encounter is minor issues with balance.

Mike

As hawk mentioned we tried a shielded Czar in Vanilla. The problem is that the added survivability it gave the thing only increased its use as poor mans nuke. People didn't actually seem to care about treating the thing as anything more than an oversized suicide bomber & the shield only let them get deeper into the enemy base first.

Before you say "but it will still have the same HP" it wouldn't. Simply because damage doesn't bleed through the shields when they drop. For example Cybran SAMs fire all their missiles at once, they all hit the shield at once, all are negated even if the shield only had 1 HP left... Multiply that by an entire firebase and it buys a few extra seconds

Personally I don't like the idea of additional Anti-Orbital weapons. Mainly because there are only the two sat systems in the game. The Artemis is designed as a game ender so when it shows up you can expect it to clean the field. If its causing you problems you could always use my tactic... Have a cpl SCUs fast build a Stealth Gen and a pair of SMD where your enemy doesn't expect it. You DON'T actually have to build SMD missiles in the silo, the anti-sat shots are extra freebies so the structure just has to be there

@Calckis: Blackops is playable on FAF... The arguments/discussion that we have been having deals specifically with the One Click Featured Mod functionality... Reguardless getting things ready to do that (at least rebalancing things for FAF's version of the game) will take time... You can still install it manually like a normal mod, the balance may just be a little off at this time.

I see, so they shields would have an unwanted effect that buffs the Czar by more than simply giving it an extra bank of hp, it gives the Czar a 'damage negator' of sorts. I suppose you still get the same issue of 'poor mans nuke' (but to a lesser degree) by simply increasing it's normal hp or changing it's armor type to heavy.

I also dont see a reason to introduce new units simply to counter the satellite weapons. The SMD's already do that and attacking the installation where the sat. was launched gives you an instant destroy. If you introduce the proposed new anti-sat units, you'd simply be watering down them to the point of being a Czar derivative which almost defeats the purpose of having the satellite in the first place.



And while I'd be interested in seeing how balanced this would be considering there are fairly cheap anti teleportation structures that can be build, I'll yeild to your better judgment since you have more experience with balancing. I simply thought this would be analagous to nuke/anti-nuke relationship but since the cost difference between Czar/anti-tele is much smaller and the anti-tele doesnt actually destroy the Czar then perhaps it could be abused much more easily than I thought. Thanks for the consideration though.

Couple of things,

I said I didn't like the Seraphim option (Felt incomplete), Have since thought up a solution that makes classic Seraphim Wacky sense; A dedicated ASat structure, but one that only manages the same kill power as a mobile. So the Seraphim would have to do the same thing that everyone does now (stealth builder setup) they would just do so slightly faster and cheaper... -Or perhaps the Cybran should do this?

Two, Who said the aircraft had to have much HP, or be any faster than a snail?

Aeon Artemis Racing.... Sounds fun to watch! First one to a Rapid-Fire arty in range of the Base station wins!

It occurred to me that the No bleed through first hit on a shield would actually be an excuse to reduce overall HP in exchange for First ASat hit immunity via shield.

- Let me be clear -

Mobile ASat would be the only if you must choice; something to push the Anti-Satellite capability of a fire-base just high enough if you don't have time to get that second anti-nuke up. Or if you are winning otherwise (EG you have many Monkeylords just itching to go) Mobile ASat would be enough to induce some fear in the Aeon player. Much the same way a Basilisk scares a guy with a Scathis -the scthis just can't kill Bassy -or a couple of Monkeys for that matter. I should note that Artemis is notable for ABSOLUTE destruction capability of ANYTHING not under ASat coverage.

By contrast,
Scathis is easily held of by shields (I've done it).
Mavor has troubles with mobile units (and underwater Commanders)
The Seraphim answer to game-ender is similarly held of by copious Anti-Nukes. (though it will wear through quickly)

I believe the main complaint (and I haven't the experience to judge either way) is: Yes, Artemis is a game-ender, a (perhaps) too effective game-ender.

Well, that's my piece. I'll not try to induce you guys to do something you don't want to do. You want to keep Artemis exactly as is; Ok, I just wanted you to consider the alternate possibilities as well.

Hey, fellas. Ze_Pilot says it would take an hour of work for you guys to upload the mod to FAF's repository and configure the necessary script files.

Well, an hour's a long time. How about you let Ze_Pilot set the mod up for you, give you an icon, and give you access to the repository it is stored in. You'll have the right to upload updated versions and changes anytime you want, as well as the right to revoke permission and take your mod down at any time.

He says it's a quick process (since he wrote the code the script files are for, I'm sure it would be) but he doesn't have permission from you guys.

Don't worry, we'll take care of it.

Mike

Most of the work (if not all) is to convert the mod_units_*.bp to hook directories.

I've made a script to do that automatically. The other thing is to do a big search and replace of "mods\BlackOpsBalance\" and replace it by "\", and done. (automated too).

I've converted Wyvern Battlepack in 10 min, and the sounds are included.

So, we less than the hour I've predicted (add 15 more minutes if you really want to have 3599 as a base)