lol UEF didn't really have any new buildings it needed. And technically base FA the UEF are sorta leading anyway... T3 PD, T2/3 Engineering Station, T3 Gunship, T3 Transport, T3 Battlecruiser. Some of the factions have one or two of those (or something that can fill the slot) but none of them started with ALL of them.

We evened that out a bit in our own way and then added on where we though of good ideas to do so. Some of the extra stuff some of the factions got is due to where it came from. Back in vanilla we made sue if we added to one side we added to all of them. Alot of those extras became unneeded or redundant when FA came out so we only pulled what fit the theme we where working toward and what didn't step on the toes of existing game content too much

EDIT: Thats where things like the Cybran Cloak, Disruptor, Stellar Gen, Lambda Tower, and a cpl other things came from.

ok, im really starting to get irritated, you keep saying UEF hasn't gotten anything new, Cybran/Aeon got X new ****.

first off, cybran has 4 new buildings? what are they that UEF doesn't have? the only thing i can think of off the top of my head(at work) that cybran has that UEF doesn't have a counterpart to is the Cloak Generator, the t3 PD, UEF ALREADY had, air staging, UEF has, T2 rapid arty, UEF has. All the factions get AT towers to prevent one faction from being totally screwed against another!

I gave aeon the MIRV because i wanted them to have it, the weapon effects i envisioned when i had the idea did not feel to fit the UEF style and more the aeon style so it went to them, the only reason i added the T3 TMD is to specifically counter the MIRV because the aeon t2 tmd does not currently work against it. all other factions TMDs work perfectly fine(after several changes to the missiles) to counter the MIRV.

one reason i added things to each faction is because i WANTED each faction to have them, with some slight differences between each so that they all weren't carbon copies. Take for example the T3 air stagings.

All stagings have Anti-Naval weapons, shields and can repair a lot of air craft.
UEF- Has 8 kennel drones, EIGHT! WHICH can go anywhere on the map, also i believe it has the most anti-naval weapons(sadly i have so much stuff in my head things get confusing and i cannot confirm this w/o consulting my actual files which i cannot do atm)

Cybran- Cloak field and Hive drones, IMO kennels are superior to Hives because hives cannot move.

Aeon- has a T3 air factory in the middle( i think i made the factory stronger than the standard t3 factory), also uses a unique crazy energy missile that can be used against ground and air targets.

Seraphim- uses repair drones and some defense drones, has the strongest shields HOWEVER the shield only covers the Air pads not the actual structure(unlike the UEF one which covers the structure)

so again, i ask you how exactly is UEF getting screwed and left behind?


edit: god damnit....blasted ninjas.

Also Nascend, if you have ANY ideas that you feel should belong to the UEF and UEF only that do not involve me removing already existing units from the mod, PLEASE feel free to post them and i will consider them. i check this thread all day and everyday and i DO consider every single suggestion, i may not respond to all of them but i do read them.

lol Knight ninjas me so I ninja you hawk

Nascend dispite hawk getting frustrated and being rather direct (which is understandable at this point) we do have a standing policy for people with complaints. We are more than happy to argue over them as long as its a constructive argument. Just saying over and over that its broke, imbalanced, or something isn't right gets old fast especially when all we can do is give reasons. We do take suggestions if you have any to back up the claims and there have been times where we have run polls to get general opinions on things.

So far you have kept repeating that the UEF are missing something because their building count is low but you haven't offered any suggestions as to what could fill the vacency. It exists because we either can decide on a good idea or don't see a reason to fill it with something. As I said we don't add units to the game "just cause". Every unit has a specific purpose & reason it went into the mod.

Ex, Hawk have pretty much covered everything.

In the end, UEF "not having new building units" is moot, the REAL question you have to ask is if they NEED any new buildings, are there any gaps that need to be filled?

If you have a well thought out and reasonable answer for that, well listen, if you plan to keep spouting stuff about # of units added and what not, well we've already given those answers.

Mike

FAF compatibility : please tell Ze_PilOt that it's ok to use your mod as a featured mod on FAF. That's basically all you have to do : it ALREADY works with the modified executable for FAF.

I'm not certain precisely how the balance changes interact with black ops. For the past year, I've played many games of blackops with patch 3603 mod, and for the most part, the patch 3603 mod seems to take precedence. All the fixes are there, and the balance changes are there. I'm guessing that only when blackops modifies a vanilla unit will there be a conflict, and it must depend on which mod loads first.

In any case, the SCD version of blackops works fine with FAF. I just played several games with it earlier today. It just needs you approval to make it possible for more people to be playing your mod than ever.

@Habeed- I have no problem with FAF, i know that there are some changes that need to be done to some of the vanilla units or what not. i think that some BO units may need to have some costs adjusted for 3603.

my main concern is this.(since i do not exactly know just yet what needs to be changed balance wise)

I do not want, nor like the idea, of someone outside the mod team rebalancing anything in our mod. if someone at FAF feels that something like the Goliath or Basilisk is too strong and they decided to change it without letting us know or permission(for whatever reason), i will get very very angry, as then the mod is no longer truely BO. i hope i am able to get my concerns across.

if someone would like to get me a list of changes that need to be made for FAF or whatnot to help me out, i would be glad. if not then i'll get the information i need when i have the appropriate amount of time to do so.

edit: all the vanilla unit modifications in BO, save for the Czar/Tempest are in the BO:Balance addon mod.

hi
first i'll like to say thanks for the great mods

i'm of the opinion that all of the factions would benifit from having a t3 torpedo launcher and t3 torpedo bombers

the t3 torpedo bomber are much more surviable and more effective at destroying a navy than t2 by a long way

As I recall, didn't one of the changes FAF made break the Sorian AI custom unit integration code? It seemed like if you use FAF then the AI will never build custom units, sticking only to stock FA. Or has that been fixed?

Apparently, no one can fix it.....

The issue stems from the FAF team integrating the AI into FAF, during which they broke something, but they don't know what beyond it being part of the script for custom units.

Mike

You can always install the mod manually yourself, but please don't deny automation for others. It's not cool. ;/

Good thing FAF is an active mod that's being developed. It also happens to be beta. It's a very useful mod that actually helps to make games, keeps things nice and updated too.

Thing is, GPG ain't able to update the game anymore, due to not having the license. THQ don't care, and neither does Square Enix. So we either support something that breathes life into the game, and steer it to the course that is most beneficial, or we enjoy our broken game.


I also understand what's being said about external modifications to your mod. I don't like the idea of that either. It's not cool for people to do that without said permission. But it'd also suck if BO was excluded simply because of fear of modification regardless of set conditions of use.


One last thing, is BO going to fix the tracks on that tank? Tracks driving the wrong way around. Broken animation imo. Talking about the UEF Juggernaught.

I'm not denying automated mod installs to anyone, I was just explaining that manual mod installs in SupCom are one of (if not) the easiest in all of the games I've come across so far. It's very cool.


1st paragraph; So what you're saying is that BO should be modified to work with a beta product? If FAF is still in development, why don't they make it compatible with BO and then ask for permission to add it in?

2nd paragraph; Increasing the game's popularity is fine and all, but you're making it sound like it's worse than SotS II (extremely broken) and FAF is somehow going to magically fix everything that's wrong with it, disregarding that it itself apparently still has plenty of bugs (most noticably the broken AI, which alone makes me not want ot use it).

3rd paragraph; It's not "excluded", it's "not included". Again, you're making it sound like it would be a privilege for BO to be included in FAF.

All in all, you sound like a FAF fanboy who wants every mod to be included in it, regardless of the compromises modders have to make to make them compatible.

Thanks for tearing my post apart, even though the things you said were never my intention. Stop nit picking words. And secondly, I don't need your acceptance to validate my post. Your last say won't matter.

1st reply: Everything starts off as an alpha, and moves eventually to beta. What your said does not make any sense as to why anything should be excluded or included. In fact, you're spouting nonsense. Why would FAF provide a 1 click mod, and then overwrite the entire thing with FAF modifications? That would somewhat defeat the purpose of playing BO. Of course BO would be the in-tact product, but FAF molded around it. Why? Because players are wanting to play BO.

2nd reply: Whatever it sounded like is a perception of your opinion and interpretation. Coding never is a magic wand. You're the dumb person who thinks I think that. Also it's still a beta. However us who do use it, not because we're a fanboy, but because we like it's convenience it offers as legitimate players who want to have fun with what we enjoy, with continued updates, would hope to see some kind of happiness between both parties, and a BO 1 click, without fussing around about downloading the latest BO.

3rd reply: That's once again your interpretation and opinion. And also thanks for dodging the context and spouting nonsense. The context is about "1 click play from the FAF menu" included, or excluded from "1 click play". Us players don't care about privileges and that crap, we just want convenience without fuss. Yes it's not hard to download. We get that! But now we have an opportunity to please some lazy people, and make gaming more of an easy ride to play. However some mod groups do care about others tampering with their mods. That's where it matters.

4th reply: I'm just a regular player. I like what I like, and I don't like some other things. Calling me out as a fanboy just shows how much of a bad debater you really are. Don't you even have any style as a forumer?

Guys this argument is getting a little rediculous

As we have stated we are willing to work with them now that we know what they are. Their initial request was rejected because we didn't know what it was and the presentation of it sounded like the half dozen composite/combination mod projects that have stolen work from the community over the years. It wasn't until a while later when someone brought it up that we found out it was a replacement for GPGnet.

My concerns reflect several that have already been mentioned:
- We don't like the idea of someone rebalancing our mod content to suite their balance unless its made a seperate mod. FAF has been continued to adjust game balance away from the 3601 patch. The question is how much they are enforcing those patch changes on featured mods.
- Technically our mod does work with FAF as I understand people have already reported bugs and issues. What seems to be the big issue is that we arn't part of their one click featured mod incorporation. We haven't payed too much attention to this because it sounds like the FAF team has to "adjust" mods to work with this functionality and we really don't like the idea. Noone from that team has actually told us whats involved. Heck I don't even know where to download FAF from
- FAF has managed to break a popular feature because of their one click implementation of Sorian's AI. This seems to be a side effect of whatever they did to put it into FAF and I really don't want to have to deal with the same thing with BO. Specifically because I have a good idea of what they managed to break and why. Sorian hard coded alot of file paths in his mod (just like we have) and they probobly adapted the thing to run outside the folder its suppost to. But again since noone has ever even told me where to get it and due to lack of time to poke through the code, I couldn't be 100% sure.
- And finally I have absolutly no information on FAF besides complaints/problems players have reported to us in this thread. Which means I don't know how it handles/stores/updates mods, what it changes in each version, what it changes in relation to the base game (aka does it block GPGnet or rewrite game files).

We have stated we intend to eventually release a mini-mod to rebalance things so it will work better in the balance framework they are using but as far as their one click feature is concerned... I don't intent to budge (even if i was contacted) on the current decisions until I have more information/understanding of what changes are entailed. Especially since it sounds like mods can still be loaded normally.

EDIT: Now please return to a topic that we haven't already beaten to death

i am extremely sorry about all this, i didnt try out all units first only the uef. so all i saw was how everyone got a transport or pd etc. sorry :/
i said you were removing factions diversity but all the new buildings/units were more different than i thought.

i still do have a few suggestions though considering the UEF originally was the only ones to have a t3 pd and transport can you make them the "best" ones? the aeon pd for example is much better, it has higher dps and it also has constant fire, which the ravager do not. the "reload" time of it makes it not so good at faster/more units. so maybe you can alter the ravager to shoot smaller "bursts", instead of long ones and long reload, like seen in the 4th dimension mod. OR lower the damage slightly on the aeon t3 pd? or you could just remove the reload time and slightly reduce the damage (ravager) but i think the other suggestions are better

And about the transports, the uef one has a shield, but it still dies faster than the seraphim for example. cybran has cloak, aeon teleport and seraphim speed. could you increase the strenght of the uef shield a bit? so it can be the one that is hardest t shoot down?

These are just ideas of the top of my head, i havent "experimented" much with this yet so if there is something i do not "see" about the units feel free to say so

I still think the uef should get a new building or two, so i will come with a suggestion.
came up with it just now but when i think about it it could be a really beneficial building and it could eliminate "my" problem of the uef not having the strongest pd etc.

UEF t3 shield wall.
this wont be that much of a building but think about it. it will be a bit taller than the ravager for example and be really thin. it will take up 1 space wide and 1-2 spaces in lenght. and it will be a thin square shield "wall" that stands in front of the building. it will only protect against ground fire and when "killed" the shield dissapears leaving only the "building" left, the building being just a small line on the ground projecting the shield. it will only take a small amount of time being built and will not be that strong just t3 version of the t3 wall. it can be built in front of your pd for example instead of building a normal shield. (or you can build both) somewhat of a front line defense shield.

Edit: after a quick google search i found this:
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15914/UEF_Sheald_wall.jpg
this is almost EXACTLY what i meant, this wall is alot larger than i originally thought, and the "building" is one the sides instead of under it. But the more i think about the more i know this could be a great addition to the uef and give them the building they need now that aeon and cybran got theirs.


And someone here mentioned they wanted all factions to have t3 torpedo bombers and t3 torpedo launchers, please no :/

@Exavier
Tnx for saving my butt. I was reading his post for half an hour and I still don't understand what he wrote .
Anyways, earlier I was looking around on their page and found the DL link :http://www.faforever.com/?page_id=2.
I also found this: http://www.faforever.com/?p=338. If you check the bottom of the article, it says that they've fixed the Sorian AI bug.

So, back on topic then.
<will insert an on topic question if/when I think of one >

Best to ask them for details on their forum, or hop on IRC in the FAF lobby. I have some information, but not to the detail you're after.

I do know that the FAF installs into default C:\ProgramData\FAForever\ and uses a fa_path.lua to direct to the actual game folder of Forged Alliance. The folder includes 4 other folders, which are "bin", "cache", "gamedata", and "logs". This allows you to still play the GPGnet, and anything else, without FAF overwriting everything permanently. Quite nifty actually.

Also from what I can tell, the 1 click mod launcher only accepts game balance that is applicable to the mod, if any. FAF balance is not applied. However you'll have to confirm it with them.

There are a few other things to know, but I'll let others tell. Anyways...


If you're talking about my post, then I don't get how Exavier saved your butt.

@Nascend: Again hawk will have to look at the Aeon PD again. We try not to modify existing units unless we have no choice, its a global balance change (aircraft fuel), or hawk gets creative (Czar Cleanse mode). Mostly because we preferr to add rather than rewrite. Also helps keep compatability to other projects. If the Aeon PD seems OP then we can defiantly look closer at it

General Shield walls have been done. Besides the link you posted of SupCOm2 version there is an FA version. Basically someone applied a square shield to a wall section so give it more height without blocking friendly fire. I don't have a link but I know it exists & that its current (which makes it compatible to most things). Hawk was at one point looking into creation of a C&C style Firestorm Defense if i remember right but I don't know if he dropped it or it just stalled out. Basically a control building that remotely controlled X number of shield wall sections so you could manage a configured shield wall without having to manually toggle a crapload of tiny sections

As for torpedo launcher & bombers... More than likely not going to happen.
- Seraphim gained the ability for its T2 Artillary Shells to split into torpedos if it impacts water after mising a naval vessel. Can hit subs as well if you have sonar handy.
- UEF gained Seawolf AoE torpedo that can decimate stacked sub swarms. Its missile barrages track and are good at dealing with surface ships.
- Aeon redesigned T3 Frigate has an naval agression mode that allows them to disable their counter torp tubes and load them with ship killers. Allowing for them to deal with larger ships that might not be armed with torpedos, or swarms if another ship is playing torp defence.
- General Redesign of naval units in the Naval Rebalance mod (Link in SpecWep thread) gives naval AA proper teeth & readjusts balance of most naval ships. Ships designed for anti-naval operations (Destroyers, Battlecruisers, ect) had more punch shifted to their torpedos to make them better at dealing with other ships at the expense of reduced damage in shore bombardment (build cruisers/battleships for that role)

I think we already have taken steps dealing with anti-naval in a fassion that fits the factions well enough

@ShEsHy: Ok will take a look.

@Tenshi07: Considering until ShEsHy just posted a link to their site I didn't even know where their site, forums, or IRC is its a little hard to ask them in those locations

Now that I have the link for them I will take a closer look when I get time.

I do hope you get to fix the track animation on the UEF Juggernaut, it's turning the wrong way. Have a look at it in-game and you'll see what I mean. Physics not making sense there. xD

Also something else to know, mod updates from the FAF lobby work when you create or join a game. If there is an update to the mod of choice, it will then patch. If you are missing the map, it gets it from the FAF vault. Or you can choose to goto the map vault and download from there.

One more thing. You can choose to start the game via the FAF lobby, but you can also go into the "C:\ProgramData\FAForever\Bin\" and run the game exe. That gets you their patched game running. But you can still go into the actual game folder and run the original exe in the bin directory, which is unmodified.

Broken record much?

Mike

Yeah I know, but I've been playing BO for a long time, and I remember even back on the old unit model, the tracks turned the wrong way, which looked weird. XD

Actually, i think the reverse tracks you are seeing for the Juggy is a visual illusion due to the juggy moving so fast. i can't be sure, have you tried slowing down the game and looking at the tracks while the juggy is at full speed?


Regarding the Aeon T3 PD, i'll take a look at it, it is spose to compliment the T2 PD by being a constant damage dealer where as the T2 PD has a large front loaded blast.


as for my Firestorm wall, i still have it, and it is basically more or less finished(from what i remember) problem is that it lags the **** of even my comp when i have a large amount of wall sections.


The Seraphim T3 transport is the fastest but it also has a small Lambda field, which is why it tends to have a little more survivability. I'll look into the continental but no promises.

ok thanks

exavier, was it this mod you meant?
http://members.casema.nl/ivanhooren/san ... dWalls.png

personally i think it looks rather ugly, and it is for all the factions and not just the uef.
what i had in mind is you build it like the t1 walls, its just stronger, a bit higher, more expensive and well, a shield. and if you build more next to eachother they "connect".

and hawk, can you explain the "walls" a bit more?

lol I know what you mean. The problem is that there isn't an easy or clean way to do it properly with the way SupCom handles shield configurations. SupCom2 might be able to pull it off because of changes within the engine & how things get processed but so far I haven't seen anyone pull off exactly what you want under the FA system.

Not in a manner that kept the game playable anyway

EDIT: The Firestorm system basically would be a single tower/control center you build. Then you build wall sections (emitter pads) like you would a T1 wall. Fliping the toggle on the control tower would power all the wall sections up creating a solid shield wall wherever the sections where.

If you decide to be featured mod in FAF, I will open a repository with the blackops code. You will have admin access to it, so you decide when to update it, and what is done with it.

As we are shadowing the mods, if you want to get rid of (some) FAF balance changes, it won't be that difficult, but will increase the size of the file (hopefully not that much).
But getting rid of bigger features (like underwater wreckage) will be more difficult. Doable, but difficult.

You must also know that as Featured Mods can be patched, the user don't have to download the whole package each time, only the difference. PM me for details.

It's fixed : https://bitbucket.org/thepilot/forged-a ... 49af8d0152