i did a test like that, the Armor is really nice if you can get in range to use it(jumpjet and mash the hotkey so they activate it as soon as they land)and it can be very effective. i also did a test of equal mass of fully upgraded UEF tanks vs loyalists, jumped em in and Detonated took out about ~90% of the rockheads, the remaining ones were slightly damaged

Well a nuke itself isn't a building...

The problem with jumpjet with armor is that UEF tank have as much AA DPS as UEF's Dedicated AA, jumping towards them means the front loyalists would take a mad beating before being able to fire.

Oh, is it possible to activate jump pack after the armor ? that way the AA will not slaughter half of them before they hit the ground.

Like I posted... that army probably dies to half its mass in tanks.

i believe you can however if your going to jump a long distance then it wont matter because by the time you get to your destination then the armor would wear off. in my test i only lost 2 Loyalists to UEF rockhead AA before they landed, armor went up and they proceeded to wreak havoc, in the end the Loyalists won with about 5(out of 20 if i remember correctly)

overall though i don't really like the Cybrans as much as i used too, i am finding myself liking the Illuminate more and more

I just got to this topic... and all I have to say is that if you're arguing so ferociously about which faction is better, this game must be pretty balanced!

lol far from

It's not. Parts of the balance are fine, but there are a lot of broken things, unfortunately.

I guess Jake didn't find them all.

I'm guessing Zol isn't coming back to this thread

I think I proved my point of Cybrans being the most well rounded and most adaptive and flexible force quite well.

As for the hundreds of rockheads nonsense it was just his complete failure to understand the argument. What if I said that instead of 30 adaptors I would have 30 brackmans, then what?

Debug mode has been modded in now (check the mod forums), why dont you actually test the game before making claims?

I suspect the tanks will roll over the army-with-brackmans, because supcom is a game with few hard counters, so just including a couple of counter units isnt going to do much.

The 30 brackmans would be annihilated just as quick as the adapters.

I'd just use my ACU or spam gunships.

Hell, my ACU trumps your entire army except the SRs, and that much mass can easily go into enough fighters.

Then you'd have Brackman instead of Adapter scrap.

Anyhow, UEF currently is quite clearly the best. But perhaps that's also because they're the most straightforward faction and the game is rather new. You have to be a lot more creative with Cybran and Illum, while UEF is the best "battering ram" and turtle faction which are two of the most obvious startegies to use.

Since UEF ACU can have longer range research does that mean he would beat Cybran ACU if they are both fully upgraded and both used overcharge?

I'm thinking if Cybran ACU would land(primary weapons can't target air) within range he would win because he has that extra nanobot thingy?

And the knockback ability is nice, I guess it's for when he is swarmed by many land units and it gives him time to do another overcharge..

edit:
Why does it say here that nanobot has longer range when it is an addition to primary weapon?

And did you know that Cybran artillery does more damage than UEF artillery and it shoots faster if I recall correctly?

I am not a hard core player but I think the Illuminate have their strengths. However, you can't play them like the other races. I think of them as Ninjas.

Naval:
- They do not have naval units but their land units can hover over water.
- They do not have to waist research points for naval units. This means that their land units can max out their skill tree fast.
- Land units are cheaper than ships and the Illuminate get a reduction in cost and improved build time early in the land tree. So, you should be able to greatly outnumber ships.
- Torpedoes can not touch them. So they won't receive the same amount of damage as a ship would.
- If you charge ships you might loose a lot of your land units. If you teleport right on top of them you will probably hardly loose any.

Teleportation:
- You do not have to lower the energy of the shield generator before entering a base. You just teleport right next the the ACU or need be right next to the shield generator.
Or teleport over an army with a few Tanks or Harvog next to the ACU.
- The Illuminate land units have the highest health regen, Veterancy rate, shield health and the highest damage bonuses after skilling up (I think, according to this image anyway:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/supcom2/images/f/f1/SupCom2_tech.jpg)
So if you you teleport your Tanks and Harvog out of a battle before they die and regenerate them you should be able to level their Veterancy rate and bring them back stronger.
- Long range land units can't really do much damage. If you see the first laser beam of a Megalith you teleport and BAM it is dead. Don't mess with the Bee Hive.

A-bomb
- Illuminate need less research points to make nukes.


I have not been playing SubCom 2 that long but in theory you should have good advantages if you play with the Illuminate in a different way than the way you would play with the other two factions.

Any experienced Illuminate players out there? Is my theory wrong?

UEF: Best fully upgraded tanks. Only side with fighters. Experimental factories good, if you can afford them. Single shields better than other sides. Slow mass fabrication.

Cybran: Fastest mass fabrication, with significant reductions in cost and micro time. Land battleships. Bomb Bouncers, if you can afford them. Better gunship damage. Best commander (nanite damage over time, +75% health).

Aeon: Great research tree, especially early land. Best fully upgraded fighter/bombers, and second best fully upgraded ground units (because of teleport). Space Temple.

This.

People please keep up with the topic...

I think actually Cybran ACU would win because he has greater fire rate+nanobot upgrade, has anyone test this?

But does it have a range upgrade. Rogue nanties does something similar to nanobot no?

Rogue nanites deal 5000 (I think) healing or damage to whatever target you attack. If you summon them on top of an enemy, though, it explodes immediately. Actually, some posts have made me think that instead of 5000 damage, it might be 25% or 20% or something instead, which would be better.

tl;dr - Rogue Nanites are great healing when not near enemies.

Tnis is from a 1v1 vision:

UEF:

Good early game land, best land fully upgraded
Best early experimentals (Fatboy / AC1k)
Best early game air-to-air capabilities with cheap fighters
Best lategame air-to-air with mega fortress
Good air-to-ground (cheap but not multipurpose)
Best early game naval
Best late game naval
Worst fully upgraded ACU
Best artillery and turtle upgrades (structure guns, repairing power generators)
Worst shields

Aeon:
Best early game land (shields come very early), medium late game land
Best late game land ability (teleport is real fast, one use may allow you to snipe and win. Also good vs minor experimentals, BETTER THAN JUMPJETS)
Multipurpose land (land units can cross theaters)
Worst early game experimentals (urchinow, willfindya)
Best PD (longer range)
Good air-to air early game (some useful upgrades early in the tree)
Good air-to-air lategame (Their fighters scale up the best, even cthough they do not have a mega fortress)
Best air to ground (Scorch, flares, shields, and teleport make their bombers a very scary force)
Good ability to turtle (Early beam generators, later income upgrades, lolyalty gun, and space temple)
Best fully upgraded commander (Most important thing is that it has thed longest range overcharge, due to its range upgrade. Also good is its ability to self heal wityh shields and nanites, and that it can ambush you with teleport)

Cybran:

Weak land (units are weaker and scale up to be FAR weaker than those of other factions. You will have to micro them well, and raid structures instead of engaging the enemy land.)
Fastest units (all of their units have speed upgrades, making them faster than other factions equivalents.)
Sucky Air-to-Air (gemini's scale up real bad)
Reasonable air to ground (geminis dont do as good as weedoboths/eagle eyes, they do not get a splash upgrade. They DO have better gunships, and the Soul Ripper)
Hard to turtle early, They have the best turtle upgrdes but they come late (Magnetron, boomerang, proto-brain..)
Weak naval (Tigersharks beat salems cost effectively, and poseidons PWN exectutioners cost-to-cost.)
Multipurpose naval (their naval can go on land, battleships being actually better than megaliths/fatboys when on land)
Very good fully upgraded commander (Nanogun kills armies just like overcharge, but doesnt need to be activated. Also has longer range than all other commanders, but doesnt affect is own overcharge. Its fast, with its speed upgrade, and when combined with its long range, it can kill armies and mini experimentals.)

Honestly cybran is playable if you manage to get to the lategame without too much disadvantage, as they do have a lot of powerful and adaptable lategame tech, so in team games it can be useful to have one.

But. You have to cede control of the air unless your allies can cover it. That means no outlying mass extractors (unless you build TONS of adapters to cover everywhere at once). Meanwhile, the enemy is therefore either murdering any outlying mexes you built and getting RP up the bum or has spent 1/8 of the amount you have on adapters in planes - then simply out techs you, and ganks your megalith with 3 fatboys.

In a 1v1 it's even worse, but that's a story for another time

Nice necro, responding to a post of the board's worst troll ever in a topic that died half a year ago.