Well, very early in the game I can't keep up with the score of the AIx on 1.2, that's because he's got the same reserves as me but builds 1.2x faster. I send my commander out fairly quickly (Usually after a land fac, 2 pgens and mexes) and then continue to proceed towards the AIx, usually on Isis this means I reclaim all the T2,3 mass that's lying around. A bit before this point the AIx sends out a few T1 units (3 usually) which get killed by my commander without a trouble.

The point in fighting a AIx is that you make sure you have more mexes than the AIx, he might get 1.2x resources, but if he only has +24 mass then he'd get +4 from the 1.2x, while I control more than half the field with mexes which gets more than 24 depending on t1/2 status.

It's usually imperative that you expand very fast, so that the AIx doesn't get the mass points that it wants, giving you an edge. On top of that you can gain extra advantage by exploiting its weaknesses which usually is air, since you have most of the mexes you can start out building T1 interceptors and bombers, also if you're good enough, set T1 AA defenses on the other side of the hill where it spawns, wasting all of it's interceptors and bombers. From then on try to destroy as many mexes as possible, don't care about pgens, since they're useless if it hasn't got any mass to produce anything.

Note: If I let the AI take half of all mexes it will take more than double the effort to take him out

I haven't tried the sorian's cheat adjuster yet, I'll try it out.

To all,

Im pretty happy with how the tweaked AI's perform in 0.9.8. Im waiting on the FA patch before making any further changes, but I just wanted feedback on a couple of items.

Firstly the simspeed issue. I feel it is largely under control in 0.9.8. Can anyone agree? (Can you provide this feedback in the simspeed slow down thread).

Secondly, what is that AI doing that doesnt feel human? What do you see it doing that a human would never do? (If you post something be prepared for me to tell you why I think you are wrong... Im not a top player, but Im reasonable)

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Version 1.0 released

Okay I couldn't wait for the official FA patch.

Here is the 1.0 version of my stock AI fixes. It is basically the 0.9.8 version plus a couple of minor tweaks (adjustments to air scouts, mass point attack platoons and inty to transport ratios).

I really feel this AI version brings the stock standard FA AIs to a playable and usable level.

*

Ducane,
One thing that I have noticed the AI on Open Palms is send multiple engs to build the mass extractors behind it's base. You know the 3 mass points. A human would use the same eng to build all 3 mass points. I think the problem is that the distance to the mass points are different then the path to get to them. Since the AI always builds it factories in the back of the base. This makes engs that are coming off the factory seem pretty close to those mass points but it has to travel a long way to get to them.

I am not sure if it is a good idea or not but could the AI have things put in the eng queue to build multiple things. Or when an eng is done building something it looks for the next thing that is close to it. If there is and another eng is set to build it to remove it from the other eng and let the eng that is close to build it instead. I am sure that will be more complicate and might not be possible if you can't tell what eng is going to build it. I guess this is only a problem for mass points.

Matt

Thanks zorin1,

Thats a good point... I will look at the engineers on open palms. I think Sorian put a check like this in his AI to look at the buildqueue of other engineers. I will take a look at see if it can be reused.

Duncane, thanks for this great AI mod. But there is a bug with Fatboys on Setons Clutch, the AI moves the Fatboy with an attack move targeting enemy ACU, then Fatty goes underwater and get stuck when reaches the Com in firing range. The AI will waste all of his fatboys there. If replay is necessary, i will upload it. What file uploading service do you prefer, rapidshare? Sorry for my wrong english, because i'm Russian =)

Firstly thanks for this AI, it really has made the game playable for me and my friends.

I'd like to draw to your attention the behaviour of the Czar though.

Replay: http://rapidshare.com/files/96336121/vs ... eplay.html

Mods installed, Duncane 1.0.0, Sorian 0.9.9

First thing you'll notice is that me and my friend both suck at the game. But moving on...

Second thing is the Tech AI had a surprising lack of hightech units even towards the end of the game. Not sure what was going on there.

The third thing is that the bottom right AI (we were playing Isis) built a Czar, then did stuff all with it. You'll notice our air defences sucked and we really should have lost this game.

Looking forward to the next release!

Plasia/ XeRmit,

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like a few issues with experimental targeting. Its not something I have looked at a lot as there were more pressing issues, but now I think its a good time to improve those. I will take a look. Thanks for pointing it out.

Duncane,

It happened with the turtle ai on one map ( 4v4 swamps ) with 4 turtle ai where after 50 minutes the ai still had produced no nuke/anti nuke nor any experimentals. AFter 1 hour they had yet to do this as well, without any intervention from us. Previous games with turtle duncane ai they had nuke's up at 33minutes.

It then happened with 3 adaptive ai on that 3v3 custom map that is #2 in the vault. The ai collected only 50,000 mass after 50 min of play (which I assume means they made no upgrades or very few upgrades to their extractors, I had collected 1 milllion mass in the same time). They also did not create any experimentals or any anti nuke/nuke. They also pumped out 30 frigates that never moved.

In both instances the ai were complete pushovers compared to what I played against before. The ai adaptive used to be good enough to keep my friends and I on our toes, but they didn't even create expirmentals. Very odd. This is with 3599 and your latest ai. I'm going to see if sorians has this issue.

I'm really not sure what brought this on, other then updating the game to 3599 as it worked before the update.

GregUMR,

Can you try removing the AI fix pack and re-downloading it and putting it in the gamedata folder?

Duplicate

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Have been using your fix for a while now and it's a significant improvement. However I have found that no matter what the AI never builds or uses any experimental units, or much of T3 at all for that matter. I had the same issue with Sorians as well, but I have been having more luck with the AI fix on adaptive. Sorian Tech builds experimentals (only a couple) but they never seem to leave their base.

The game length is usually around that 1.5-2 hour mark, by which I usually get tired of waiting around and defending. Anything I can try differently?

w00t: I am looking at experimental issues currently.

What maps are you playing on and with what AI's?

I've been playing it on custom maps like Citywars and Battle isles, but I figured they wouldn't work well with custom maps? So I have also played them a lot on Ians cross, ravine and clutch. Though on Battle isles my aeon AI teamate built 2 czar's but only sent 1 into their base and the other sat at homebase the rest of the game.

For the AI do you mean which type or race? I always put them on random, so I've had all combinations. And for the AI type I have mixed and matched them all as best I could. I mostly play with AI adaptive. I play a lot of 2vs3 or 3vs3 and I try to put one of every AI type.

Thanks for the info w00t.

Also have you tried the AIx types? They are harder and more likely to get to experimental stage.

Yeah I've tried them as well, actually just finished a game vs 3 AIx and 1 was tech. Late late game they did seem to build more, but after the game went on for just under an hour and a half they only built 3 experimentals.

They did however sent loads of brick bots, which caught me completely off guard.

Hi, I played with your AI and Alx they do not seem to be upgrading the ACUs, even after a long period (60mins or more)

I havent looked at the ACU upgrades yet. They are currently disabled.

I am just double checking the experimental production and the expansion base code currently, but I will put ACU upgrades on my list after that. Sorian already has it working and much of the code is already in the default AI just turned off.

I know from ranked games that ACU upgrades have a much bigger part to play in FA compared to vanilla so its worth getting some of the upgrades. So as I said.. I will look into it next

Actually it would be helpful if people suggested the best ways to use the ACU upgrades.

I think the gun upgrade is good for a mid game T1 com rush if you have a mass surplus, but after that Im not sure when to use the various upgrades.

Any suggestions?

Well, for end game, resource allocation which seems to make your mass so it isn't always negative, and engineering build speed are the ones I like getting for my Commander and even my Support Commanders. If the game is going to go much past 1 hr 20 minutes, then giving the Support Commanders engineering speed and then making them generate additional resources is the way I like to go. I keep the Commanders building the whole time, so if they can generate resources and build faster that's what I prefer most.

I never use the Commander for combat, but then I never really play 5X5 maps in Skirmish Mode either. But, it can be quite a deal to take a couple of Support Commanders, give them the enhanced weaponry and take them into combat. One of them can usually wipe out a support base or two before the end of a game, if you transport it into range rather than making it walk all the way across the map. But, it takes a lot more coordination to make use of Support Commanders in a combat role on a 20X20 map -- I find that I just prefer to stick them onto building my Ahwassa when the SCU's come off the assembly line. Now, if the game is looking like it's going towards a 2nd hour of game clock, on something like a 40X40, then I get into the habit of doing the resource and engineering upgrades on the SCU's so that they can pump out T4's a lot faster or finish up a T3 Artillery in a timely fashion.

Iirc, the Commander upgrades that I do are called 'Resource Allocation' and 'Engineering Build Speed'. In FA, some of the commanders seem to have what's called Enhanced Resource Allocation or Enhanced Engineering Build Speed, so you could in theory spend the whole game simply upgrading your commanders and never use them to do a single thing the whole game.

I always go for resource and built assist, I try to get build assist as early as I can as well as resource allocation as soon as I can grab that. I never use mine for combat either, but I'm no pro by any means however this seems to work out quite well for me. I'll sometimes ditch for a shield if I'm getting hammered but usually I don't need to.

SCU I usually have the same as well, but I usually opt for a shield to help built expansion bases. I always have some support with them so I don't opt for attack upgrades.

I believe that the engineering suite is a great first upgrade because it adds more health and provides access to T2 buildings. The gun upgrades are also very useful on smaller maps, but only if the com is being used offensively. If the com is not being used for the offense it's only useful when the base is under attack, and that usually is bad news for the AI either way.

Stealth is a great, and cheap, early upgrade for cybran.

ahh ok, didn't know it was intentionally disabled.

All depends what a person/AI is trying to do, but I think small maps 10x10/5x5, early offensive gun upgrades are most helpful but only if the ACU is playing aggressively.

otherwise in longer games, shield/stealth upgrades are better, along with engineer upgrades for more health.

Things like teleports should be avoided unless the AI knows how to use it properly (most likely not! )